“Off”
Exactly. When I put a device off, it’s supposed to stay off.
Nooooo, but it’s all for your security and convenience, see? They know better than you when to turn your device on or off, don’t you worry your pretty little head about it one bit! Plus, I bet it also protects the children and prevents terrorism too! Why would you turn your device off, are you like a terrorist pedophile or something? /s
<Incredibles Meme> Off means Off </meme>
That’s great.
I like a phone that’s able to just run little Bluetooth beacons when it’s powered off. Especially ones that can’t be disabled except by disassembling it.
I’ll take it. I’d rather not lose my phone above it pinging the Bluetooth while powered off, and they sell Faraday cage boxes for pretty cheap if I have reason to not want any signal coming or going to my cell phone, which I would trust more than any phone pre android 15 with, if I want to be paranoid about it. So even now I don’t trust that my phone being off means it couldn’t be located. None of the hardware in my phone is open source.
I don’t like how privacy is becoming more of a binary. If the choices really become “either let the phone turn into a beacon or stuff it in a Faraday bag” then that’s one hell of a choice isn’t it?
And hypothetically, if phones were always capable of doing this to some degree and we just weren’t informed somehow, then they’re finally rolling that functionality out because it’s become culturally normalized. Which frightens me more, frankly.
Bro, how many years you been seeing movies and TV shows where they stomping on phones and pulling batteries an trashing them “so they aren’t tracked”. They do it in the movies because that public perception has been there for ages. True or not.
I would want the Faraday cage to have a beacon on it, so that I could find my phone even if I lost it while it was in its Faraday cage. Logical.
You are a brilliant man.
Custom rom ?
When it’s shut down the custom ROM isn’t running. This would be custom firmware for the phone.
Or it isn’t really “off” and they’re faking it.
But yes, you’re probably right that it’s something lower level.
Depends if this is already baked into the firmware the device shipped with and is just being pushed into user space with a software update, or if the update is also pushing out the firmware to add it.
If it’s former, then yeah, probably SOL.
But if it’s the latter, it might be possible to get avoid and even get Android 15 ROMS that strip out those parts.
I’d be surprised if custom ROMs were a thing on the Google Pixel, which is the most likely phone company to allow such a thing to begin with. After all, their Pixels are still technically developer phones, AFAIK.
Pixels are one of the best phones for using custom ROMs. GrapheneOS, one of the most popular ROMs focused solely on privacy, only supports Pixels.
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we all thank you for your service of taking a part of a sentence I wrote and refuting it outside of its context.
He brings up good points albeit not relevant to the discussion. One thing that really irks me about Pixel phones is lack of external display support. I really want a smartphone that can replace my laptop. Samsung Dex shows promise by why aren’t the main OS developers doing anything there?
I wouldn’t trust my current phone even with a custom rom. Some stuff could be at the hardware level. You want to know your phone can’t be found for sure, buy a little Faraday cage box for like $15 online and then test it to make sure it works.
I’d prefer it be an option I can enable or disable per device.
I wish pinephone pro’s weren’t booty. Hardware switches to cut power to everything from the WiFi module to the camera sounds pretty hot in light of this.
That feature is right on the border between real neat tech and deeply unsettling.
“Hey, my phone uses its last few electrons to turn into a bluetooth beacon to stay findable” sounds like sci-fi “reserve power emergency mode”
“I can’t turn off the locator chip in a device that holds half my life and memories” is just dystopian.
I’m wondering if there would be a way to keep it useful while minimizing impact for people who stay off the grid. A hardware switch would probably be a good start but they won’t fly with current all-touch designs.
It will be seen how they implement it, but since Google is creating their own version of the Find My network, it will likely be tied to activating that. If it’s anything like the way the iPhone does it, disabling Find My would turn it off, they might (should) also provide the option to turn it off when powering down your phone.
On iOS there is an option to disable it until you turn the phone back on when shutting down, right under the shutdown control.
Yes, I was saying Google should implement the same thing.
minimizing impact for people who stay off the grid
People who stay off the grid don’t have smartphones!
As much as we enthusiasts like to try and have our cake and eat it too, the only way to really be completely private/secure/anonymous is to be completely disconnected. Threat models and compromises and all that.
Great we finaly get the features that the NSA has been saying is “classified” Big step for open spying for everyone
Cool. So you can no longer turn your phone off.
“How can we sell Intel Management Engine to phone users?”
How about letting damn alarms to run even when the phone is turned off? We lost this ancient feature moving away from dumb phones.
You know what’s funny. I was investigating the hardware datasheets for the PinePhone and looking at the RTC module and just like PC RTC chips there is an option to trigger an interrupt/power on when a certain time is met. That means that there appears to be no reason this couldn’t be a current feature on probably all modern smartphones. Just lack of software support.
That’s good to know! Maybe the open source community can work something out. Google certainly won’t bother with what’s in essence the most purely offline functionality. It’s not in their interest to have phones offline (case in point, the update mentioned here).
But how otherwise to convince people to always leave their
surveillance devicesphones switched on?! I had a oneplus 3t that would wake itself for alarms, shame it broke eventually.Yeah…exactly the reason why they never did it.
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Afaik Huawei phones have or had that.
I heard Samsungs can as well. However I nor anyone I know have ever owned a Samsung in order to verify.
The more the IT world takes this dystopic approach the more I turn into a fucking luddite.
More of Google copying Apples worst features. Apple iPhones that are “off” simply become Airtags. This is functionality that works for big tech and not the end user. We need to push back on this shit.
How? Will you start a petition or what?
Patronize alternative products and services. The growth of GrapheneOS, Calyx, and other alternative phone operating systems is significant and shows there is a market. Hopefully privacy respecting hardware can follow.
Sounds scary
Yeah nah, don’t bring your phones to protests folks
We need to stop normalizing the idea that you can go about your day carrying some big tech tracking device on your person and maintain privacy!
If you’re protesting, you should be bringing no phone > or a dumb phone > or a completely clean install.
Regardless of which option you choose, if you’re carrying any phone to a protest you should be carrying a faraday bag. They cost like $5 people! If you can afford a phone, you can afford a faraday bag.
This saved me on an iPhone before. I lost my phone outside a bar miles from my house, and didn’t notice at the time. The next day I was able to track it and go retrieve it despite that the battery was dead. Otherwise I never would have seen it again.
Yep
I feel like this would help more than it would hurt, but I wish there was a way to force a full shutdown as needed. If someone is in danger, they shouldn’t have to discard or destroy the phone completely to stay safe
You can get a faraday pouch. Also highly recommended for car keys.
Oh that’s smart, I should look into that
Why for car keys? Are many thefts done through wireless key cloning?
Yes, it’s become common over the past few years. People walk up to houses or apartments, catch the signal, and use a device to copy it and steal the car.
Couple example articles:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/lapd-issues-warning-over-spike-in-chevy-camaro-thefts/ar-BB1j5s52
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/edinburgh-police-warn-of-keyless-car-theft-surge-as-criminals-steal-vehicles-in-seconds/ar-BB1jX8ciSo there are signal-blocking pouches sold to prevent this:
https://askthecarexpert.com/faraday-boxes-for-car-keys/
On iOS you can disable it in the shutdown prompt.
Isn’t that more the last location is recorded instead of even if you turn it off, we’re still going to keep it on and track you.
I don’t know about the Android feature, but on iPhones, they reserve a little power when the battery is dead, or the phone is powered off, and it continues to be fully trackable. It functions like an AirTag by relaying off other nearby iOS devices.
Wasn’t some spy company just caught selling info of people whose phones pinged near family planning clinics? If I turn my phone off, I want it off, dammit. Bring back phones that let us remove the battery just to make sure.
You can do that with Fairphones. In fact you can take the whole screen off them in the dark with your bare hands. Also, they have two SIM slots which I think is a pro for privacy.
Nice phone but too expensive for most users imo. We need sub $200 phones with removable batteries.
Another thing, I got a new phone about 3 months ago but the old one still has some unmigrated info on it. So once in a while I power it on to access something. It has stayed charged because there isn’t a battery sucking Bluetooth beacon running when the phone is off. I’d hate to have to keep charging the phone when it’s just sitting in a drawer.
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Lol google be like: let’s fuck the people. We need more money
