As I initially checked the Wikipedia article for Uyghur Genocide it took me about 1 minute to find that the article had his name spread all over it and the sources it cited. He works for the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, which is funded by the USA.
Every source you check eventually circles back to him. There is also not really any video or photo evidence, compare this to the terabytes of videos of the gaza genocide. There is like 1 or 2 picture that shows a prison and curled up inmates, this doesnt look good but still better than Guantanamo or the El Salvadorian prisons.
China accuses the USA of funding terrorists in that region, which also lacks good sources but given the USA track record of funding separatists for regime change for example in 1953 Iran “coup d’état” and the USA listing China as their enemy number 1 e.g. in their newest national security strategy paper, it doesnt seem too far fetched.
Yes this doesnt mean there cant be possibly any wrong-doing on the Chinese side but the evidence for that is scarce at best and manufactured at worst.
The one China policy is also a direct result from China winning WW2 against Japan, Japan used to colonize Taiwan and genocided the Chinese. Imagine questioning other results from WW2 like Polands indepence.
Also the british used to occupy Tibet and looking at other british occupations like Palestine or Sudan (with Egypt) it gets pretty clear that they left nothing but chaos. So given all this history it, to me, seems justified that China wants to keep their country together and looking at satellite pictures from Xinjiang we dont see rivers of blood like in Sudan or thousands of pictures of child amputees like in Palestine.
Its really convenient how in the West every separatist movement like Catalonia in Spain or the Reichsbürger in Germany is immediately not valid, why all separatist movements of the Wests “adversaries” are immediately legit.
You are probably one of the 3 feddit.org users who can think critically.
Is Amnesty International a fundamentalist right wing organization, captured by Adrian Zenz?
They do cite him five times in their report on the subject, but their report does contain a total of 718 sources.
This is not to say that their report should be treated as uncritically correct, but neither should their claims be dismissed outright because of an anticommunist having been a part of doing research on the subject.
To illustrate - Candace Owens, a well known right-wing agitator and all-round piece of shit frequently speaks out against Israel. This does not, very obviously not, make Israel good.
It’s way easier to trick people than to have them admit them they have been tricked. CIA knows that.
Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds; applies to institutions too.
https://mronline.org/2021/02/18/role-of-ngos-in-promoting-neo-colonialism/
but their report does contain a total of 718 sources.
And how many of those sources cite Zenz themselves?
Feel free to figure that part out. At a cursory glance, a not-insignificant part was information sourced directly by Amnesty.
I have figured it out: many of them. And no, Amnesty did not produce a significant amount of primary evidence. You’re just straight up lying now.
I have figured it out: many of them.
Great! I salute your rigour in the matter. How many of them was it?
And no, Amnesty did not produce a significant amount of primary evidence. You’re just straight up lying now.
There are 430 hits for “Amnesty International interview” as sources.
Who knows, maybe they just interviewed Adrian Zenz for all of those claims. The joke would very much be on me in that case
Great! I salute your rigour in the matter. How many of them was it?
Maybe you should have some rigour yourself, rather than immediately descending into bad faith time wasting.
There are 430 hits for “Amnesty International interview” as sources.
And how many interviews does that correspond to? Who was interviewed and what did they actually say? When you strip out all the unsubstantiated Zenz stuff, how much of the story is still left?
From the report: This report is a product of field and remote research carried out between October 2019 and May 2021. The report’s findings and conclusions are based on first-hand testimonies that Amnesty International gathered from former detainees of the internment camps and other people who were present in Xinjiang after 2017, as well as from an analysis of satellite imagery and data. The report also draws on testimonial evidence and confidential government documents gathered and analysed by journalists, scholars, and other human rights organizations. One hundred twenty-eight people were interviewed for this report: 55 former detainees of internment camps in Xinjiang (39 men and 16 women), 15 other witnesses who lived in or visited Xinjiang since 2017, and 68 family members of people from Xinjiang who are currently missing or detained. The majority of the interviewees were Kazakh, a minority were Uyghurs, and a small number were Kyrgyz or Han Chinese.
as well as from an analysis of satellite imagery and data.
Wow, that is sneaky: making it sound like the did the analysis themselves, when they actually got it from the right wing military industrial think tank ASPI
The majority of the interviewees were Kazakh, a minority were Uyghurs
???
Yeah?
I didn’t read the entire thing but citing Adrian Zenz 5 times is not the only problem, the thing with Adrian Zenz is that other sources also cite him.
For example one the source is buzzfeed(heh) and the first one that I clicked: The police state of the future is already here also has Adrian zenz 5 times.
This thing is a mess.
Yep, this also extends further, other sources will cite the buzzfeed article, etc, like a giant source ouroboros.
As an endearing giant Balkan boy says, “It’s a Snake eating its own ass.”
I’ve never heard of any of these western sources you’re citing…
I do have uyghur friends though. Are they fake too?
My Iraqi friends assure me that America will be created as liberators
I have Venezuelan friends. They say the country would be better if the US army invades and bombs Maduro to establish private corporate ownership of oil under Shell and Exxon.
Stop hanging out with Nobel peace prize winners
Why should anyone believe you though?
“my friends” is not valid evidence of genocide , thousands of pictures of dead children and destroyed cities is
Nobody ever accused china of bombing cities and murdering children. You’re thinking of israel.
Genocide can take forms other than bombing and starvation.
Residential school system in Canada is considered a form of genocide on the native population. We dont have to literally bomb them out of existence to be considered a bad thing
and yet majority of people that accuse china of genocide deny israel doing genocide
Make a claim
i really don’t understand all these people on .ml (who clearly aren’t chinese) bootlicking for china
look, i’m a “communist” as well… i hate capitalism, blah blah blah… you guys are right about so many things. china is great, the west fucking sucks. i 100% agree…
but i don’t understand why it has to extend to, “ALL criticism of china is invalid”… china has a clear objective of unifying the nation and the culture. and that means pushing out the non-han minorities such as the uyghur people.
is this achieved through extreme violence? of course not. that’s barbaric and not-subtle.
china knows how to play the long game. decades if needed. the west doesn’t see anything beyond a 4 year election cycle…
The burden of proof is in you. Make a claim
That’s a lot of words to avoid saying “I believe China is committing genocide because they are doing ____”.
You have a friend over there but haven’t said what their experience is. You have said genocide doesn’t have to look like Israel but haven’t specified how it applies to China from your perspective. Make a claim.
it’s a family i know here, who left china due to oppression… nobody said anything about violent genocide.
i really don’t need to type out their whole family situation because why waste my time getting instantly downvoted? you’ve all already decided that talking to uyghurs is fake news…
I mean, it’s just the entire crux of your argument. I’m also not the same person you’ve been talking to. All I did was ask you to make a claim instead of vagueposting about the definition of genocides being pretty wide and getting on a soapbox. It’s hard to have discussions when you refuse to communicate about the topic, but rather delve into meta-commentary as soon as you’re asked for any details that have brought you to your conclusion.
There is good criticism of China, but the problem with how Xinjiang is portrayed is that it’s the most reactionary, anti-communist people that are pushing the genocide theory the most. They armed seperatists and radicalized them in order to foment a block in the Belt and Road Initiative. The idea that China is pushing out non-Han ethnicities is wrong, China’s NPC has great minority representation, ethnic minorities are well protected, and Uyghur culture is flourishing.
the problem with how Xinjiang is portrayed is that it’s the most reactionary, anti-communist people that are pushing the genocide theory the most.
so just because reactionaries/anti-communists are pushing the narrative to support their own ends makes the issue fake/invalid?
so if neo-nazis started supporting palestinians to push an anti-semitic agenda, that makes their oppression fake/invalid?
The idea that China is pushing out non-Han ethnicities is wrong, China’s NPC has great minority representation, ethnic minorities are well protected, and Uyghur culture is flourishing.
lol, again…100% non-chinese telling us how great it is over there (for non-han minorities). how do i know most of you aren’t even chinese?? ZERO actual chinese people, even the most woke ones, announce their preferred pronouns…
i’d love to see all you “they/them” folks try actually living in china…
btw, not making fun of pronouns… i support… i’m just pointing out the irony…
so just because reactionaries/anti-communists are pushing the narrative to support their own ends makes the issue fake/invalid?
No. Complete lack of evidence that can withstand even the slightest scrutiny makes the issue fake/invalid.
Neo-Nazis aren’t really supporting Palestinians, and moreover there is ample evidence of Palestinian genocide while there’s very little evidence of a supposed genocide in Xinjiang. The Xinjiang atrocity campaign is being used the same way as Saddam’s supposed WMD, which also had little to no actual evidence.
Secondly, some Chinese do list their pronouns on English sites, but moreover I can support the combatting of western atrocity propaganda while also believing China has a long way to go on LGBTQIA+ rights. I consider myself cis, I list “they” as an alternative because I know some people don’t want to be referred to as “they/them.” I prefer he/him in most cases, but am okay with being referred to as they/them, while others certainly aren’t.
Right now you’re doing the bit where Zionists say queer people shouldn’t support Palestine because groups like Hamas are anti-LGBTQIA+. The wheel of social progress moves faster when not being killed at scale, and we can see improving LGBTQIA+ rights in China over time.
My Uyghur friends keep mogging me with their jawlines, food, culture, and their happy lives in China.
Open wikipedia.
