Remembering to look for and ignore folks with that telltale indicator has made the fediverse so much more enjoyable.
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My .ml experience:
- Have a different opinion
- Get banned for rule 2
- See what rule 2 is
- Respect other opinions
i’d insert
- see what rule 2 is
- wonder why that applies
I’m pretty sure I’m banned from .ml.
Badge of honour.
Yep. They’re afraid factual reality might infect their little flock of frightened chicks so they inoculate the entire hen house with “Rule 1” bullshit. Meanwhile, they have no problem allowing vitriol and hatred to spew from their own loyalist goons. And those goons are able to take advantage of the free speech that all the other instances practice because they know that lemmy admins are flaccid an ineffective tools.
.ml needs to be defederated. Let them cry about it in their own little echo chamber.
I’m not even a particularly principled commenter.
Pretty much all I do is shitpost.
The .world experience:
- Have different opinion
- Provide evidence for said opinion
- Get a spam of 15 different accounts calling you anywhere from 7 different slurs to Russian troll/bot
- Get banned for “tankie”
- See how Zionists don’t get banned despite defending an ongoing genocide
Well people who make the same excuses as fascists and make excuses for crimes against humanity deserve to be banned, regardless if they are Marxist-Leninist or nazi.
I’ll agree when you fight for the abolition of all western countries for their crimes against humanity.
Why abolition? There are some countries that need reappraisal of their past and need to compensate for it, however it is much more necessary for China, Russia, DPRK and the US. UK also to an extent. EU less so.
All you ever do is defend psychotic dictators and criticize the West when stuff aint as black and white as you pretend it is.
I at least am able to criticize the West just as much as any other country, because yes, western countries could do better. But China, Russia and DPRK aren’t better. I want socialism without the ML bullshit. I want socialism with a human face.
Laugh my fucking ass out. You libs are so oblivious to the countless sins committed by the west. As late as 1960 France was butchering some million Algerians for the unforgivable sin of wanting independence, but sure, China, the country which carried out the greatest industrial revolution and elimination of poverty the world has yet seen, is so much worse.
Last time I checked, there were still not few people living in abject poverty in China and a shitload of people being worked for less than a living wage. Also whats with the rooftop safety nets at Chinese factories. Also China has like the second most billionaires in the world. What kind of “socialist” state is fine with having billionaires?
Last time I checked, there were still not few people living in abject poverty in China and a shitload of people being worked for less than a living wage.
How long ago was that?
- United Nations Secretary-General, 2019: Helping 800 Million People Escape Poverty Was Greatest Such Effort in History, Says Secretary-General, on Seventieth Anniversary of China’s Founding
- Reuters, 2018, China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data
- The Economist, 2021: At 54, China’s average retirement age is too low
- Bloomberg, 2024: China’s Energy Use Per Person Surpasses Europe’s for First Time
Also whats with the rooftop safety nets at Chinese factories.
That wasn’t a common thing, it’s not a thing now, and it was the result of Foxconn’s illegal labor practices which the “authoritarian” state has since put the kibosh on.
Also China has like the second most billionaires in the world. What kind of “socialist” state is fine with having billionaires?
On the off-chance that your question isn’t rhetorical, previously.
Actual .ml experience (from a guy who has different opinions):
- have a different opinion
- some marxist-lenninist (or multiple) replies with a massive paragraph with several citations with primary sources proving your opinion incorrect
- realise you were wrong the entire time
- become a marxist-lenninist
Also like come on, I’ve seen you around on .ml and all you want is to stir things up and ignore the evidence that other people provide, or say it’s just wrong without providing any alternative sources.
I have found that ML’s tend to refuse to accept alternative views when supported by similar sources. Almost as if they are not interested in political philosophy or discussion but rather have just memorised doga and get worked up when you push passed their talking points.
All i got was a quote of his ex-wife and an evaluation of another book. So please stick to the facts.
My actual .ml experience:
- share a different opinion from the groupthink
- multiple tankies reply in unison at the beat of a drum, dropping high school memes and insults, misinterpreting what’s being said and refusing to listen or even bother to prove anything wrong
- try to defend myself
- get site-banned by admin
🤷♂️
I’m genuinely interested, can you provide a link if that example is still up?
I agree that insulting you is not a good resolution or a nice thing to do.
I sincerely can’t find it. I know it’s a huge thing over there to “ask for links or it didn’t happen”, but I changed accounts and even unblocked the instance while trying to look it up. I think my entire post history got scrubbed along with the ban, which I find hilarious, because how do I prove it happened if the admins deleted the whole thing? lol
from the modlog it looked like you got a 4 day ban for citing a work of fiction as fact and crashing out in the replies when challenged on it
I had asked for a source that the book is fiction and got no answer except a quote from his ex-wife.
Here’s what you say is “no answer except a quote from his ex-wife:”
Alexander Solzhenitsyn was an anti-semitic Nazi sympathizer, and was arrested as such. His fiction is based on the folklore of the gulag system, and archival evidence and historical texts paint a much clearer picture of the soviet prison system. He’s essentially Yeonmi Park but for the USSR.
Here’s a real quote:
From an excellent thread going over his many ideological failings:
In his 2003 book, Two Hundred Years Together, he wrote that “from 20 ministers in the first Soviet government one was Russian, one Georgian, one Armenian and 17 Jews”. In reality, there were 15 Commissars in the first Soviet government, not 20: 11 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 1 Pole, and only 1 Jew. He stated: “I had to bury many comrades at the front, but not once did I have to bury a Jew”. He also stated that according to his personal experience, Jews had a much easier life in the Gulag camps that he was interned in.
According to the Northwestern University historian Yohanan Petrovsky-Shtern: Solzhenitsyn used unreliable and manipulated figures and ignored both evidence unfavorable to his own point of view and numerous publications of reputable authors in Jewish history. He claimed that Jews promoted alcoholism among the peasantry, flooded the retail trade with contraband, and “strangled” the Russian merchant class in Moscow. He called Jews non-producing people (“непроизводительный народ”) who refused to engage in factory labor. He said they were averse to agriculture and unwilling to till the land either in Russia, in Argentina, or in Palestine, and he blamed the Jews’ own behavior for pogroms. He also claimed that Jews used Kabbalah to tempt Russians into heresy, seduced Russians with rationalism and fashion, provoked sectarianism and weakened the financial system, committed murders on the orders of qahal authorities, and exerted undue influence on the prerevolutionary government. Petrovsky-Shtern concludes that, “200 Years Together is destined to take a place of honor in the canon of russophone antisemitica.”
200 Years together is a completely different book and an ex-wife as a single source is not enough for me.
Okay, let’s assume his storys in the Gulag books are fictipn. What is your general opinion on gulags under Stalin?
The point of 200 years together being listed is that we know that he’s a liar and a conspiracy theorizing anti-semitic Nazi, so trusting his word alone on socialism makes no sense. We have every reason not to trust him and no reason to trust him, especially when he contradicts archival evidence on how prisons in the GULAG administration functioned.
As for soviet prisons, they varied quite a lot depending on severity of the crime and location, with many being pretty progressive for the time. Visitation, open air prisons, and a focus on rehabilitation was common. I already linked Russian Justice, but you should absolutely read it.
Yep, Wikipedia is written largely by westerners using western consensus, even if such consensus has inaccuracies or better information is available post-opening of the soviet archives. You can even see it uses the Gulag Archipelago as a source, despite it being a work of fiction.
“Different opinion” lol complete bullshit as usual
You know what’s funny is .ml was one of the first instances I signed up for. I thought it stood for machine learning or something to do with programming.
I knew it was a leftist instance. I went into it (naively) excited to engage with a more thoughtful leftist internet space, considering it was a bunch of reddit exiles who were upset about heavy handed Reddit censorship. I was quite disappointed to learn quickly that it was just more of the same tankie brain rot, with more of the same tankie censorship you can find in a thousand different tedious places.
Even then I stuck with it for a bit. And then I learned that the head admin was potentially the most fragile person on the Internet, who literally will not post outside his own instance because he cannot handle any internet where he does not have (what he believes to be) a “win argument” ban button. It is literally so cringe, I cannot stand to be associated with it, and I don’t understand how other people tolerate being associated with his antics.
excited to engage with a more thoughtful leftist internet space
considering it was a bunch of reddit exiles who were upset about heavy handed Reddit censorship
Lmfao. What’s leftism to you?
Tankies are lefties alright. Just braindead ones
What do you consider a non braindead leftist?
As long as you avoid campism and are ready to criticize the USSR and Maoist China for what they did wrong you’re not braindead
Reasonable. Although it seams at this point tankie is just a blanket derocatory term to anyone who supports communism. I was a bit concerned that you were calling all communists braindead, although its good that you aren’t.
Nah nah. I’m not that braindead 😅
Braindead is when you deviate one millimeter from western capitalist state propaganda
You can deviate without lapping up Kremlin propaganda
Five communists got enjailed in Ufa last week for reading Lenin. Being pro-USSR and anti-USA+EU doesnt equate with being pro-Russian Republic
You were defending the Russian republic just two days ago need i remind you
MLs are essentially incapable of arguing in good faith. You know how Christians quote to bible to “prove” their religion is true? MLs are the political version of that.
I opened a thread just yesterday and the top comment was “I recommend you read this article if you want to know what Noam Chomsky is really like”. It was upvoted. I like to learn things, and don’t really listen to a lot of Chomsky. So I started reading.
It was the most uneducated, biased, ragebait crap I’d ever seen posted to the fediverse. I started mentally building my reply about how “people are saying” is the worst kind of fallacy, and providing a quote from someone else with a different opinion doesn’t count as opposing evidence. I actually got a little upset, disillusioned even, wondering how anyone could fall for this idiotic “argument”. I didn’t agree or disagree with any point, but it was just so poorly made.
I went to reply, thinking I should provide some warning, then I noticed I was in an ml community. I’m mobile, so it sometimes doesn’t show the community until I’ve clicked (I know I can change that in the settings). I considered posting anyway, but it felt so fruitless. It feels like they’re either sheep or assets. I moved on. I feel better getting to let it out here instead.
As someone leaning ML, this makes me feel like I haven’t argued with my own side in a while… Or I am less ML than I think I am…
I have an ML account and usually just jump back and forth between .world local posts and .ml local posts and I swear I’m not seeing all this hostility people talk about anywhere
deleted by creator
Yep. I made an account there. Got banned for having an opinion that was in direct conflict with the propaganda shared there.
wait, what does it stand for?
Technically it is the top-level domain name for Mali.
I’m fairly certain that the Lemmy devs chose it because of their two favorite socialists/communists: Marx and Lenin. But I can’t find a reference to that right now.
Marx was a socialist political philosopher, that helped define the social end goal of communism. Lenin was a militant revolutionary that thought he could ignore Marx’s slow natural social evolution to communism. And force it under authoritarian boot heel. He was aspirationally communist at best, but not communist. His ideology has failed to achieve it everywhere it was tried. Generally, creating a new class of Petit Bourgeoisie or even collapsing into open fascism.
Other than that you are correct. Lemmy.ml hexbear.ml and lemmygrad.ml all chose the Mali TLD because of the abbreviation.
Have you read either Marx or Lenin?
A more important question is, did you think critically about what you read. And compare it to actually historical outcomes. Not just take it as dogma. Why do you think the Soviet people ultimately rejected the party Etc. At least symbolically. Why did former vassal States often demolish former Soviet monuments. Did they not read enough Lenin. Or had they lived it.
Unlike the states built around Lenin’s ideology. I believe people should absolutely be allowed to read about opposed ideologies and even organize around them. If they reject you, generally that means you aren’t filling their needs or are being a net burden. Though I also generally reject the idea of, or need for the state entirely. Far too much concentration and corruption. Whether it’s technically left or right.
That’s a lot of words to say “no.”
I did think critically about what I read, and it’s astounding how many predictions that they made came true. For instance the monopolisation of whole sectors of industries was a really specific prediction to make in Marx’ time when nearly every town had their own manufacturers but look at us today with the global food supply controlled by only a handful of corporations.
And the majority of its citizens did not reject the Soviet Union. It was dissolved against the will of the people. Why do you think the CPRF is the second largest political party still today? Why did other communist parties fare so well in the elections after the dissolution? Why did NATO need to systematically destroy Yugoslavia if the people largely disagreed with the system?
Also, I’m gonna be very honest with you here, your statements about Marx and Lenin when you clearly didn’t read them make you look rather silly. As an example, it is widely accepted that abandonment of vanguardism caused the collapse of the SU. Therefore it was in fact abandonment of Leninism that caused the collapse. Vindicating Marxism-Leninism. If we’re talking about comparisons to historical outcomes… And his view on the “free press” still hold up today, in particular when viewed from the side opposing the gaza genocide.
Leninism is the only noncapitalist ideology actually practiced, so I wouldn’t really call it failed. China, Korea, Vietnam, Cuba and Venezuela are the most prominent examples of course.
I can only recommend, once again, Comrade Cowbees introductory reading list. In particular Marx as viewed by Lenin himself.
Lenin wasn’t trying to erase that transition to communism is gradual, but instead correctly identified that the beginning of that transition is revolution, which Marxists at the time had erased from Marx. Dialectical materialism posits that there are revolutionary leaps after quantitative buildups, the transition to socialism is the beginning of the next long gradual process of achieving communism. He did not “force it under authoritarian boot heel,” but instead was the leader of the bolsheviks, a mass party chosen by the working claases.
Contrary to your position, Marxism-Leninism has successfully established socialism in many countries, and is so widely adopted by leftists partially because of its practical success. It’s the western leftists that endlessly move goalposts to invalidate socialism outside the west that results in perpetuation of bourgeois narratives surrounding socialism as it exists in real life.
Honestly, your appraisal of Lenin and Marx makes it come off as though you haven’t actually read either. Have you?
because of its practical success
That’s like a doctor saying that shooting a patient in the head was a success because they don’t have headaches anymore.
a mass party chosen by the working claases
a party that seized control and maintained it’s grip on power with violence against the working class
That’s like a doctor saying that shooting a patient in the head was a success because they don’t have headaches anymore.
Doubling life expectancies, providing free and high quality healthcare and education, low-cost or free housing, full employment, reaching full literacy, democratizing the economy, defeating the Nazis, and taking a semi-feudal backwater to the pinnacle of scientific and technological development, even reaching space in a few decades, is not “shooting the patient in the head.” None of your accusations make any sense.
a party that seized control and maintained it’s grip on power with violence against the working class
No? Fascists, capitalists, and landlords are oppressed by socialists, but not the working classes. More fantasy on your part, it’s all vibes with you in the face of actual facts.
That is such a simplification that it is probably wrong.
Marx did not really concern himself with the ultimate goal of communism. His great achievement was his analysis of capitalism. Marx did not describe a slow evolution toward communism, but rather a process in which the contradictions he identified in capitalism culminate in revolution. No evolution! The few times he commented on communism, he described its prerequisites. He writes in the Communist Manifesto “In depicting the most general phases of the development of the proletariat, we traced the more or less veiled civil war, raging within existing society, up to the point where that war breaks out into open revolution, and where the violent overthrow of the bourgeoisie lays the foundation for the sway of the proletariat.”
Lenin’s approach was enormously successful in some respects. After the October Revolution, the USSR underwent unprecedented industrial development, which greatly improved the living conditions of most people. In general, the argument that “it has never worked before” is very problematic. For some strange reason, communist countries have always found themselves under massive attack from capitalist countries. For example, by Hitler’s Germany or the US. Inconceivable sums of money were invested by global capital and its states to show “that communism does not work.” If it really hadn’t worked, none of that would have been necessary. That still applies today. Lenin was a right-wing, authoritarian communist and was rightly criticized for this by people like Rosa Luxemburg. But economically, things were improving so rapidly that capitalist states became increasingly concerned. The fear was so great that capitalists in the US even agreed to the New Deal. Something similar happened in Europe.
ML does not stand for Marx and Lenin, but for Marxism-Leninism. A propagandistic self-description of the system of the Soviet Union under Stalin. Another word for it is Stalinism.
i’m a leftist and have an ml acct. but it’s like there is no engagement or linking or such - i dunno. i’m a newb.
You’d be hard pressed to find many on the fediverse that aren’t some flavor of leftist.
But yes. A lot of instances defederated from the .ml ones for the same reasons ml were generally blocked and banned from similar sites in the past. Which ironically led to the start of Lemmy and the link aggregation portion of the fediverse in the first place.
A lot of instances defederated from the .ml ones
Last time I checked, infosec.pub was the only instance of any nontrivial size (319 users / month) that was defederated from lemmy.ml.
There’s a push recently on lemmy to make people think that .ml instance is unpopular, it’s user wrong and you should leave it or be ostracized.
This is the nth post about it I’ve seen in the past few months.
I haven’t noticed a recent uptick myself, but the usual suspects have been pushing that narrative for years.
Depends if you consider liberals to be leftists.
No, it does not. That’s just a popular way for MLs to disregard any opinion they don’t like. “Liberal” is to online MLs as “woke” is to conservatives. The Fediverse is packed with Anarchists, Socialists, Communists, and Leftists that don’t fit neatly into a category and that’s not even arguing about whether social democrats and democratic socialists count.
The Fediverse is packed with Anarchists, Socialists, Communists, and Leftists that don’t fit neatly into a category
You mean terminally online wannabe leftists who haven’t read theory or engaged in organizing while they regurgitate CIA propaganda?
Like clockwork, here’s one now. And he plays a reverse card like this is Uno and not an intellectual exchange.
“CIA propaganda” is the other ML buzzword that approximates conservatives alleging “woke” and they’re always baffled that people outside their echo chamber don’t immediately concede the point. Like they just made the first move in a game of chess and legitimately think it’s checkmate.
“CIA propaganda” is the other ML buzzword
If you really wanna get informed about it, Gabriel Rockhill literally just published in Iskra Books an extensive analysis of the ways the US State Propaganda Apparatus affects media, arts, political organizing… There are literal entire books written about it if you wanna get educated.
Lmao. Are you gatekeeping being a leftist?
You say that as if it’s a bad thing
I’ve got an ml account too, but at the time I think world was normal. I think world has also gone the Reich way.
I was wondering why so many tankies dominated that instance.
ML meaning “Marxist-Leninists” makes so much more sense now.
What a bunch of assholes.
The people who seem to have problems with lemmy.ml:
- Normies/liberals (not me) who don’t like the large number of tankies on the instance (“tankie” is a FAIR description of “Marxist-Leninists” in my opinion) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism–Leninism
- Socialists (me included) who don’t like MLs because we believe in socialism democratically controlled by the workers - something MLs seem to pretend to want, but then hold up the USSR and China as examples, which is hilarious at even a cursory glance
- Right wingers, who are afraid of the words “communist” and “socialist”.
Lemmy.World censors a bit, when it comes to calls for violence against rich people (though seem to have chilled recently), which is a bit annoying, but I’ve had multiple comments removed as “reactionary” from .ml.
.ml mods (not all) seem to be very sensitive and very comment removal and ban happy
I’ve seen many normal sounding users on lemmy.ml, but the reputation is not undeserved because there are many MLs on there also.
I think there is nothing more fitting than an anti-ML using Wikipedia on Marxism-Leninism as their source. Chef’s kiss.
Just the most convenient link as an overview. As far as I can tell the page itself is fairly neutral (other than the criticism section).
Though, happy to hear your perspective of how Stalin’s and Mao’s versions of Marxism–Leninism was democratic.
From many people’s perspective, it definitely was not. And there is no socialism without democratic control by the workers (all of them), in my view anyway.
I’ve had multiple comments removed as “reactionary” from .ml.
What account? I don’t see it in any of your modlogs
Lemmy.World censors a bit, when it comes to calls for violence against rich people
They are pretty heavy with the censorship if you’re pro palestine from what I’ve found.
My experience with .world was getting banned for ‘trolling’ from their news comm as retaliation by a mod that I had banned from /c/transgender for posting a matt walsh video, making fun of people with neopronouns.
As a anarchist I have plenty of reservations about both the USSR and China. In terms of internet communities I personally find ML spaces much less annoying than social democrat dominated spaces.
What account? I don’t see it in any of your modlogs
After checking, either mod logs have changed since it happened to me (it was a decent while ago), or I have fabricated a memory. Perhaps I saw this as a reason when looking through the mod logs of a specific community once. In any case, yeah, it doesn’t exist in my modlogs.
They are pretty heavy with the censorship if you’re pro palestine from what I’ve found.
Haven’t noticed this, yet, though could be because how heavily it’s censored. I mostly engage with that topic on aussie.zone, so this may be why I haven’t noticed.
As a anarchist I have plenty of reservations about both the USSR and China. In terms of internet communities I personally find ML spaces much less annoying than social democrat dominated spaces.
Fair enough, though MLs (the ones I’ve argued with) seem to defend practically everything about them, which is frustrating.
quality advice masquerading as a meme
I learned that lesson this week.
I keep learning it this week. 5 .ml assholes and counting.
Once I figure out how, I’m just gonna block the whole instance.
Honestly these kinds of posts don’t bother me. I’m usually on here answering people’s tech questions or trying to provide useful resources to people. If they don’t see it because they have ml blanket blocked then that’s their loss.
Yeah, there are plenty people who ended up there early when they’re weren’t many other options. Or just didn’t know. Though it’s your loss as well. Cut off from several instances for the behavior of others. It definitely sucks.
Cut off from several instances for the behavior of others
Name them please. Because as far as I know, its a few small ones with barely any traffic?
one of the best parts about lemmy.ml is no cm000spam
Wish we could get rid of the diva and cowbee spam here as well
Is it “spam” for 99% of my posts and comments to be in my home instance, and for the overwhelming majority of my interactions be via comments instead of posts?
Bro must either be an egomaniac that has a bot combing lemmy to find instances of his name being mentioned or terminally online.
I mean it’s probably the same reason I responded, I sort by new comments/chat
I search my name from time to time.
You don’t need a bot to search your own username, you do know that right? And you don’t need to be particularly egotistical to do it either, just halfway competent
you could simply block me if you’re tired of my insights 😇
I’m not constantly spinning up new accounts like cm so it would probably be the last you see of me
No no. That would be a concession
What is this in reference to?
there’s a user (cm0002) who is so fervently anti-communist that they’ve spent years at this point having a vendetta with lemmy.ml/grad/hexbear.
for the longest time they were taking anything posted to a .ml community vias rss feed and reposting it on .world/or other instances out of spite
they also churn through accounts, so people who block them get to re-block them on every new account they spin up
Whinging about lemmy.ml yet again are you? Speaking of making the fediverse more enjoyable, it’s a good idea to ignore folks who love to stir the pot and create fediverse drama.
My last .ml meme was 2 months ago. I guess I should be proud that it bugged you enough to burn into your memory like that?
But yeah, warning new fediverse users that there are awful places and the whole fediverse ain’t like that, well, that seems a polite way to improve the user experience and help new folks.
I love my city but I also generally warn visitors about our open air shooting gallery a few hundred meters away from the entertainment district for much the same reason.
You may not know this, but there is an option to block instances in the settings
Not the users though. I have .ml blocked, which means communities hosted there (therefore moderated by them) don’t show up. However I still have to read their tankie comments.
Pretend it’s a little game called “whack-a-troll” and just block them as you see them. If everyone did this, eventually they have no one to annoy anymore.
Can one block all users from said instances too, or is that not possible?
There are ways but they are quite difficult. The Sync or Connect apps offer that, although I think they aren’t updated often iirc. Some exceedingly few instances have defederated from lemmy.ml, but none of the major ones. You can also get into customized uBlock Origin filtering rules, if you want…
Or just switch to PieFed, which has tons of features that Lemmy lacks. Like seriously, just tons and tons of them, and more keep being added practically weekly. Lemmy can or will not keep up, so it will fall behind and PieFed continue to pull ahead, watch and see. https://piefed.social/auth/instance_chooser
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted but here’s my internet point in solidarity.
The people who are most likely to become blocked by following my advice are well-known to be anti-choice (in the sense that they don’t want others to have the ability to block them). Which ironically is one of the best reasons to go ahead and do so.
Yeah, they’re the pop-up ads of people.
piefed, i believe, can do this
deleted by creator
Is there a way through Voyager, or is it a web-only feature.
sorry, i don’t know. i don’t use Voyager.
US liberals are so upset when they hear anything to the left of AOC.
Pretending that Marxist-Leninists have Leftist beliefs is cute. That workers have no self-determination and have to tow the party line under threat of violence is the dead giveaway
Related to your post: I’ve seen people from Lemmy.ml defend imperialist behaviour from Russia and China. Surely the left is supposed to oppose imperialism - whether it’s from the US, Europe, Russia, China, or anywhere else.
The communist party is run by the working classes and derives its power from popular support. The people oppressed by communist parties were overwhelmingly fascists, landlords, and capitalists.
Communists are rich people who are privileged enough to not work and spend all day larping. They dont know working class people they’ve never met any.
I’m a communist and that’s false for me and every communist I know IRL that I work with, and is also false on an international scale. Communist parties are working class parties.
Communists love to wear working class struggle as a disguise. They aren’t working class and once they get power they use and abuse them just like every other rich cunt.
Some communists, not all communists.
Nah pretty safe to say all.
This is nonsense. Communists seek collectivization of production and distribution to satisfy the needs of all, and when communists take power the first things they do is implement measures like land reform, literacy campaigns, and expropriate property from landlords and capitalists to better serve the interests of the people.
First thing they do is strip rights away from people. Second thing they do is start erasing history. Third is increasing police forces to crack down on any dissent.
Communists serve the communist party not the people.
Out right lies. The communist parties (the ones that have existed, not the the theoretical ones) derive their power from threat of violence against workers. They’re a non-hereditary nobility that oppress workers (except North Korea which is now a hereditary monarchy).
Incorrect, on all counts. Communist parties derive their power from popular support from the working classes, as they themselves are working class. State violence is used against fascists, sabateurs, capitalists, and landlords. If they truly were a nobility concerned only with oppressing workers, then you have to prove why there was such dramatic improvements in social welfare, poverty eradication, key life metrics, studied Marxism and taught it in universities, and more. Certainly these would have been of no importance to a new ruling class?
You’re dramatically incorrect here.
Communist parties derive their power from popular support from the working classes
Political power flows from the barrel of a gun, not popular support. But of course strict control of News, Education, public discourse, and suppression of criticism really helps with the popular support.
State violence is used against fascists, sabateurs, capitalists, and landlords
as well as the workers
why there was such dramatic improvements
A phenomena that has occurred in plenty of other countries
studied Marxism and taught it in universities, and more
Priests, much like Bolshevik party officials, exist to maintain the system of control over the working class on behalf of their rulers and religion is widely taught in universities just like Marxist-Leninism was.
Marx has some interesting things to say, he should definitely be required reading, but Marxists treat Das Kapital like Christians treat the Bible.
Political power does flow from the barrel of a gun, but a revolution is doomed to fail without popular support, including a socialist government. The working classes were not oppressed by socialist states but instead uplifted, dramatically more than capitalist peer countries. The only countries that supercede socialist ones are ones that rely on imperialism.
The implication that Marxism-Leninism is a religion is baseless, the purpose of Marxism-Leninism is to abolish classes, not to maintain a ruling class like liberalism is.
Why are you going through old comments of mine to reply to?
but a revolution is doomed to fail without popular support
Which is why almost all of them ultimately collapsed. East Germany famously got to a point where they were spending more money on the Secret Police than on the military.
the purpose of Marxism-Leninism is to abolish classes
Todays home work assignment is to look up “Defacto and Dejure”
Why are you going through old comments of mine to reply to?
Don’t flatter yourself. You churn out comments at an incredible rate and you’re on half the Posts I look at.
i was on hexbear, i said a lot of stuff like “palestine and israel have been at each other’s throats and they should settle the gaza war peacefully”, “venezuela should NOT be run by nicolas maduro”, “we need a revolution” and “what if north korea was a de leonist country”.
so far, comments like these were interpreted as simply “antisocialist”, “zionist”, “fedposting”, “manufacturing consent” and “history of repeating us state department talking points”. hexbear is full of the most hardline marxist-leninists you’d ever meet. they DIDN’T realize that you can be marxist-leninist while NOT supporting stalin’s actions in the ussr government and such. i’m still studying socialist/communist theory though.
i’m very glad i went with this lemmy instance. seriously!
“venezuela should NOT be run by nicolas maduro”
Is Libya better off without Qaddafi?
Yes
Libya was once the most prosperous country in Africa, after the murder of Gaddafi it collapsed into ruin and now has an open slave market. It’s basically in an ongoing low-level civil war, with two different governments claiming control over the country. This is why there are people dying in the Mediterranean trying to escape.
I really hope you just didn’t know.
I don’t get it, why is that instance of lemmy bad?
They tend to be so frothing-at-the-mouth emphatically leftist that they’re indistinguishable from a CIA program to discredit the left. To be clear, I don’t think lemmy.ml is a CIA program, but I can’t imagine what they’d do differently if it were.
I think the problem is how authoritarian it is. It feels like living in Russia or china. If you say anything bad about china, russia, NK, or the moods you are attacked like you are the anticrist and banned.
From my experience I would risk to say many of those accounts are not even “real” people just a lot of ccp or kremlin police. Really zero freedom to express any ideas or even debate
The reason it looks so very similar to the Alt-Right, is because it basically is.
To you, opposing genocide in Palestine and wanting to end US supremacy and western imperialism looks very similar to the Alt-Right.
Your problem is that you don’t care when it’s the west oppressing people
Not at all. If you don’t want anyone to be opressed I would support but anyone knows about reeducation camps, ukranian invasion and I’m not even going to comment on nk… that is just absurd. I’m not defending us just because I don’t agree with other peoples oppresion
Btw I’m not american! Just a decent human that want other humans to be free.
You support western colonialism which is orders of magnitude worse than anything you mentioned.
who said that? I literally JUST said the opposite. You ate inputing in me an idea that it’s not mine. That’s a you problem.
“I live in the most powerful and harmful empire but I reject any system opposing it” amounts to supporting it
Yeah, it’s absolutely a pro-dictatorship pro-russian/chinese farm to get their bot accounts comments, upvotes, etc, to push misinformation.
Literally got banned today for saying Putin should pull out of Ukraine and china has live organ farm harvesting in Xin Jiang province.
Edit: spelling. According to some big brain thinkers if you make a typo in the name of the province where people are tortured, it miraculously never happened…
Literally got banned today for saying […] china has live organ farm harvesting in Xin Xiang province.
Well, good ban. Disinformation should be banned.
You also seem very concerned for the people of a province whose name you can’t correctly spell. Surely not concern trolling
That is unfortunately not disinformation, you can easily google it.
Western state propaganda disinformation is readily available in Google, unfortunately. No material evidence for this, only “anonymous interviews”. We’ve seen how trustworthy those are when manufacturing atrocity propaganda against US geopolitical adversaries.
Because it’s too left wing for the western redditers who are used to Scandinavia being the end of the political spectrum.
Also, the admins of .world want to consolidate the fediverse under their own instance, hence the constant firehose of rhetoric from .world trying to drive people away from rival instances.
If you define Left Wing as concentrating all political power in the hands of a narrow elite. The rest of the us have more egalitarian definitions of The Left.
Your view of reality isn’t materialist. You can’t explain why standards of life have been massively boosted in actually existing socialist countries and inequality rates have been the lowest recorded in history.
The only explanation possible in your view, would be that, for example, 5 different benevolent dictators have succeeded each other over 70 years in the USSR maintaining world class healthcare, education, access to housing, pensions and job security. But these things don’t happen in countries with dictators such as Saudi Arabia or fascist Spain.
How is it possible that there are only “good dictators” in communist countries?
You can’t explain why standards of life have been massively boosted in actually existing socialist countries
You can’t explain why the same thing happened in Capitalist countries and doesn’t appear unique to “socialism”.
How is it possible that there are only “good dictators” in communist countries?
Most outright dictators in communist countries were shitheads. After Stalin died, the USSR had the secret speech. After Mao died, the Chinese communist party made it a high priority to prevent any one person from ever gaining that much power again (which fell apart with Xi Jinping). Ceaușescu was more interested in a life of luxury than in the working class. Most communist countries at most times had a political elite that ruled, not an individual with singular authority over the nation.
You can’t explain why the same thing happened in Capitalist countries
This is false, though. a few capitalist countries, particularly in western Europe and in North America, industrialized at the expense of the rest of the world through colonialism and imperialism since the 1800s, but since the end of WW1, only a minority of capitalist states have actually developed and industrialized, most of them being small European nations still. No fast industrialization with massive life quality boosts happened anywhere in Latin America or Africa, and in Asia only in US puppet regimes utilized as weapons against China. If India had applied the policies that China or the USSR did, hundreds of millions of lives would have been saved from disease and starvation over the past 100 years.
Man, politics must be so easy when you just make up lazy strawmen that aren’t remotely accurate
liberals/social democrats tend to lose their shit when they realize that they’re right wing, so it’s easier to demonize people for pointing out it
havent used lemmy in a while and dont get it, could someone explain the joke?
They’re pro China and Russia
Huh. I’m trying to understand what you mean. Your interpretation is that .ml is pro-China and pro-Russia. And, as you can see, my account is .ml. I’m not sure I would identify as pro-China or pro-Russia. What does it mean to you to be pro-China and pro-Russia?
I think most people agree with OP that it’s not a 100% thing. Some people just signed up long ago, or picked a big instance.
I would assume they’re speaking literally.
To be fair, I did sign up a long time ago. However, I do have reasons to stay in
.ml. Here’s a response I posted elsewhere: https://lemmy.ml/post/40683138/22907808
To understand what you mean, is that seal winking? If so, are you saying that maybe I’m not being forthcoming or honest? I hope that you and I and everyone here can agree that we’re trying to understand what we’re all saying and where we all stand. I’m not being sarcastic or trying to hide anything.
Ah. Thanks for the explanation.
Well, if I look at my posts and ask myself whether I’m sealioning, I do see that I ask many questions to others. However, I also see that I talk about my stances and my beliefs. That is, as far as I can tell, not sealioning. Sealioning seems to require work from others while not doing the work of communicating.
Here’s a post in which I lay out some of my beliefs and stances regarding
.ml: https://lemmy.ml/comment/23293518Of course, I could be wrong, but that’s how it seems to me.
Explaining your stance doesn’t negate sealioning.
.ml admins are pro russia and china. Are you an Admin controlling the flow of content
Thanks for the straightforward response.
It sounds as if it’s clear that .ml admins are pro-Russia and pro-China. I understand you’re also asking if I’m making content-flow choices.
I think it’s worthwhile to interrogate where I stand in relation to
.mland my identity.The way I see it,
.mldoes have posts that mourn aspects of countries like the USA and posts that recognize achievements of China. I’m not sure I’ve seen posts praising Russia, like at all, ever (if anything, I’ve seen posts critical of how Russia is a hyper-militaristic society).I take this to mean that
.mlis not indoctrinated in the way that many of my friends are. Some of my friends think that capitalism is perfectly ethical, and they sweep under the rug awful things about capitalism. They sweep under the rug how capitalism creates systemic inequality, how capitalism optimizes for accumulation instead of human flourishing, how capitalism is short-sighted in its investment strategies, how capitalism cannot create infinite growth in a contained system like planet Earth. I see these kinds of analyses in.ml. And I do not see them as much in other places.I want to make it clear that I’m not saying those analyses don’t exist elsewhere. However, I see
.mlengaging with them much more. I could be wrong, and I’d be very interested if you can link to other communities that engage with things like, for example, classical economics instead of neoclassical or post-Keynesian economics. Anyway…This might lead you to believe that I have a specific political project in mind that I’m supporting. And yeah, I believe in humanism, in human development, and in empathy-based ethics. However, I do not believe in static visions of the future. I do not think that there’s a Single Best Way Of Solving World Problems. I believe the world is a complex system and we need multiple simultaneous experiments at all levels to get more of what we want and less of what we don’t want.
And what is it that I want? I want more acceptance of diversity and less hatred. I want more people working in good working conditions and less shitty workplaces. I want more equality of opportunities and less hoarding of privilege by the wealthy. I want more people out of poverty and less people stuck in the cycle of poverty. I want more investments that care about the long-term benefit of everyone and less investments that care about the short-term benefit of elites. I want more people who can choose what to do with their lives and less people stuck with what they’ve got in front of them.
So am I anti-USA and pro-China?
- If you tell me the story that the USA is lagging in healthcare compared to its rich-country counterparts, then I want less of that. Am I anti-USA because of that?
- If you tell me the story that the USA managed to be an innovation power-house for a century because of its entrepreneurial state, then I want more of that. Am I pro-USA because of that?
- If you tell me the story that China has a demographic problem because of its gender imbalance, then I want less of that. Am I anti-China because of that?
- If you tell me the story that China is investing immensely in the development of green energy, then I want more of that. Am I pro-China because of that?
What I’m trying to say is that we have to look at reality with openness. I believe we should not stick to a simplistic story. I believe simplistic stories blind us to complexity and nuance. I believe we should not stick to easy stories such as “pro-USA” or “pro-China”. I believe we need to be able to break complex systems down and find what we want more of and what we want less of. I believe we then need to be able to accept that in complex systems we cannot know the end-state. I believe, instead, we need to try things out at multiple levels and see if we’re getting more of what we want and less of what we don’t want.
So yeah, I see myself as someone who sees in
.mlthe kinds of analyses that I don’t see elsewhere. Of course, I’m open to alternatives and am curious about where you stand and what you believe.
A lot of us are pro China and Russia. Not all of us, some of us aren’t tripping balls. I’m just kinda here, and didn’t realize I was defederated with some other instances…
Probably gonna make a new account in that case, if I ever remember to actually do so
That’s what I’m not a fan of. It feels softer than it is, the information bubble. The ml admins are too good at removing dissent and it translates to users unaware of the situation. Were there informed consent, I’d feel less aggrieved.
The fact they don’t list dissent or criticism of China/Russia as being bannable in the rules is one of the bigger problems. They will just ban you for Rule 1 or 2, neither of which have anything to do with that and leaving banned users scratching their heads wondering what they did wrong. Meanwhile to the other .mls, it just looks like the devs banned someone for a “legitimate” reason because the devs will leave a comment painting the banned user’s comment in that light.
Example: User “BillyBobJones” expresses a dislike of China’s genocide of the Uyghur Muslims. Dessalines or Davel will quickly ban BillyBobJones under Rule 1 or 2 for, say, “racism”. Then they will leave a comment under the deleted comment accusing BillyBob of saying something racist and saying that’s why BillyBob was banned. Unless an .ml user bothers to check the modlogs, they won’t know what BillyBob actually said and will praise Dessalines/Davel for removing a racist. Dissenter removed, echo chamber reinforced.
China’s genocide of the Uyghur Muslims
I literally just left Xinjiang again, currently in Kazakhstan.
If you want to criticize China, talk about existing policy, not silly shit the west made up.
Maybe even come over and make some friends and ask them about their experiences.
Also p sure its lemmy.ml policy to include the post you were banned for, unlike .world who will straight up lie.
faux far left.
You’re only considering the x axis. They are far left and fascist. You can be far left and liberal.
No you can’t
Whenever braininabox shows up, you know it’s about to get a little Rule 2 in here
I’m out of the loop. What’s the context of this?
I really need to get off .ml
A few crazies ruin it for the rest of us. I’m riding it out, I’ve been here longer than most of them 😂
It’s literally impossible for you to have been here longer: https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Lemmy
I jumped in .ml by random and it’s crazy how had the hate is. If you find a good intance DM me sir.
It’s weird, I hopped off ML due to how much hate other users were giving me, but I never actually experienced anything from the ML users themselves. I did stay off the politics subs, so that’s maybe why, but it was genuinely quite a chill instance for me.
Anyway I’m on UK now, and people seem to treat me nicer
You let them bully you into changing instances lol
I did. Have you not met some of these people? I’ve got kids, man
Weak
