TLDR: XFCE and Cinnamon devs are begging beginning to work on Wayland support.
The “TLDR” is sub heading is completely misleading. Cinnamon devs see they have to move, that’s the reason. “Begging to work” on Wayland is not at all what the article says. Before you downvote, read it. Nothing in that article or the link to one dev’s blog says anything even remotely like that.
I suspect it’s just an autocorrect typo for “beginning to work”.
I like that… I’ll take it. Thank you for putting it that way.
As a Debian XFCE user, I will gladly switch to Wayland when it is available.
Why not just install the Cinnamon desktop when it becomes wayland ready?
XFCE wants to be Wayland ready with XFCE 4.20, which should be released near the end of 2024. Cinnamon wants to have Wayland as default by 2026. So, in theory at least, XFCE should be Wayland-ready before Cinnamon.
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Look up who had his birthday at 4/20 (American style, so 20th April) and we’ll see if you’re still praising the number. It’s associated with more than just drugs.
I feel like talk about Wayland being the next big thing, “coming soon” began back when I was using Linux as my daily driver over ten years ago.
It’s still not widely used?
It’s the default in most big distros, so it is widely used.
the usual exception is nvidia, a lot of distros fall back to X on nvidia
It’s a very slow moving project by design for better or for worse. There also hasn’t been a ton of developer interest in the DE space in supporting it until the last few years since it would necessarily take resources away from other work, and generally X has been “good enough” until recently. I don’t have anything to back this up but I suspect that the increased accessibility of gaming on Linux as well as HRR and HDR displays entering the mainstream had a lot to do with this renewed interest.
I’ve been using Wayland for about 8 years at this point. Some people (especially in the Linux world) are just really against change.
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The video card thing, if talking about NVidia, really is wayland’s fault. The devs refuse to use the card and driver the way X did. I suspect it’s because they don’t like NVidia’s licensing of the driver, and they’re trying to make life a pain for NVidia users to for the business to make concessions.
This is the original developer/maintainer of Sway and Wlroots’ opinion on NVIDIA with regard to Wayland. This doesn’t seem like an unfair opinion to me. Gamescope breaks regularly due to bugs in NVIDIA’s proprietary driver; even if they know what the issue is, they can’t send patches to fix it because it’s proprietary. The best they can do is open a bug and beg them to fix it, which is what they do. If there’s an issue on Intel or AMD, they can just send patches upstream to Mesa, and I would guess they do.
Thankfully, with the heavy active development of NVK, this might change in a few years.
Mind you, I’ve actually had a better experience on KDE Wayland than Xorg. Categorically…with the exception of Steam. While the games themselves play fine, the client is very glitchy. But it’s a small price to pay for all the other nonsense I’ve had to deal with on GNOME/KDE X11.
Maintainability is why wayland exists. The devs not putting up to nvidia’s special child complex in favor of a unified codebase really isn’t a surprise.
The discord thing can also be seen as a good thing (it’s a feature). Wayland is more secure and prevents apps like discord from spying on literally every keystroke you press. Especially if the app is discord, I don’t want it to be able to look at what I’m typing in real time
It’s extremely widely used. It’s been the Gnome default (unless you used Nvidia) since 2016 or something.
Even in Debian on Gnome it’s been the default since 2019.
On KDE a bunch of distros use it too.
Wayland is the future. But for most it’s already the present too.
Nvidia has been decent on Wayland from my experience. Then again my experience has just been 5 days, but it feels snappier than X11 I kinda like the feel.
Nvidia on Wayland is usable but not much more than that. There are issues with Xwayland windows flickering and some general instabilities and glitches. But it works for the most part, and the 545 drivers supposedly fix lots of missing features and bugs for Wayland.
Yeah xwayland does has a lot of issues, with fullscreen wine games for example all you see is constantly zooming background instead of the game. But the finger gestures and the overall smoothness makes it worth it for me, even tho I play my games in a window. Hopefully 545 fixes that.
It’s still got issues even now, but back then they were big enough that you had to really want to use it, casual users would have become quickly frustrated.
Also Steam.
“Coming soon” for me started when major DEs started abandoning xorg, not when they adopted wayland.
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Good. X11 has not been properly maintained and shouldn’t be the default for any distro. (Xorg, whatever.)
At least the Mint devs are being realistic on the time span needed for Wayland to have a chance at working for everyone, unlike Fedora, KDE, and Gnome that are jumping the gun.
Jumping the gun? It’s been working mostly without issue for most people for years now.
If you ignore all the things where it doesn’t.
Could say the same about X. To me X seems pretty broken and unstable.
just this month I had multiple wayland issues forcing me to switch to an x11 session
Since we’re going with anecdotal evidence, I’ve been using Wayland daily for over a year and haven’t had any issues related to Wayland
Ok
Personally X11 is unusably buggy and janky. Just a clearly inferior experience.
While maybe sometimes buggy, at least things run. I’m all for modernization, but if there are compatibility problems with recent software, I’m not OK with it being declared “the better, mature standard thing everybody should now use”.
Wayland works pretty well, especially on GNOME. It’s good they did the jump, X11 poses unacceptable security risks for the current time.
If nobody does that, nobody will be using Wayland to report issues.
Keep in mind their time line is like 2 years.
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devs are begging
Do you mean beginning?
It could be begging if they’re not the ones in control of the steering.
OP: “did I fucking stutter?!”
How did Mint fuck up year-based version numbering? I did a fresh install on a laptop this year and briefly worried project had died.
It’s not actually based on the year. There have been 21 other major releases at various intervals starting with 1.0 in 2006. It just happens to be close to the current year right now.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The creators of Linux Mint and the Cinnamon desktop are experimenting with the Wayland protocol – and so is the original developer of Xfce.
Normally, the project’s experimental repository, codenamed “Romeo,” is private, and code is only opened to the public once it reaches beta test stage.
Cinnamon 6.0, planned for Mint 21.3 this year, will feature experimental Wayland support, but he warns folks not to expect too much at this early stage:
It was the first release that defaulted to the then-new Unity desktop, and at the time, the Reg didn’t rate it very highly.
As his new blog reveals, so is Red Hat developer Olivier Fourdan, who has been working on a rootful mode for XWayland.
What is possibly more interesting is that Monsieur Fourdan has a previous claim to fame: he is the original author of the Xfce desktop, which he started building way back in 1996, as he mentions in this 2009 interview.
The original article contains 484 words, the summary contains 157 words. Saved 68%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
been using MX linux the past little while, it uses xfce - it’s not awful, but wayland looks more promising. might have to find a distro that I like that uses it
