Downvote. I’ve always supported the concept of suicide, provided it’s a rational response rather than an emotional one.
There was a scientist in the early and mid 1900s whose name escapes me. And he was known for discovering cures for disease, and different elements, and such.
He came to a point where he decided that he hadn’t enjoyed living for a long time, and he saw no logical reason he would ever start enjoying life in the future. So rather than play it out until the end, hating every year of it, he decided to kill himself in his 30s.
He wrote this letter stating not to cry over his loss. Not to get emotional. He just came to the logical decision that he would rather not suffer through life for 50 years. Just end it now.
That is a STARK contrast to something like “my wife just left me, and I lost a million dollars, and my dog ran away!!!”
Because for those people, they are dealing with temporary but intense problems which over time will eventually subside.
However, if you’re in in your 30s or 40s, and you look back on your life, and you struggle with questions such as “what makes you happy?” because you’ve never been happy, then I support suicide. I think it’s selfish to force others to suffer through life, for decades, with nobody thinking what it’s like for them, simply because there’s a stigma against it perpetrated by people who only even talk to you 3-4 times a year.
I think it’s it’s selfish to expect them not to commit suicide, and suffer in silence, because it would make you sad for 3-5 minutes when you find out. Or maybe it would make you feel guilty for a few minutes that you didn’t reach out.
But after that, the feeling would pass, you’d go back to never thinking about them anymore, except this way, they won’t also be suffering on their own.
There is no “rational” reasoning that leads to the conclusion that you’ll never be happy (unless you’re in an actively harmful situation, such as a torture prison or with an extreme chronic disease).
You cannot tell whether you’ll be happy, you cannot know who you’ll be ten years in the future.
Claiming that you won’t ever be happy simply because you haven’t been happy so far is short sighted and narrow minded.
Well you’ve contradicted yourself there 'cause you said we were stationarygave 2 examples of rational reasoning a minute ago.
I think when someone has been suffering consistently for over a decade it’s not short-sighted. Especially considering long-term issues with their environment. Chronic illness (ruining QoL and shortening lifespan), lack of transportation, no social life etc adds to it. The glaring societal problems aren’t new, and are likely getting worse rather than better.
Even looking at anecdotes (“We met on WoW”), lots of people don’t even have the circumstances to allow that slim chance.
I assumed that it was given that I exclude the example (with the implication of it not usually being the case for people considering suicide).
no social life
I struggle to imagine a scenario where you actually have no chance of rebuilding a social life. What are you, a lighthouse keeper living far from any city and getting your groceries airdropped?
You may not be in a situation where rebuilding a social life is trivial, but 50 years is enough time to learn how to find friends even in sub-optimal situations (e.g. at a grocery store). It is enough time to weed through different people until you find some that match you.
Even looking at anecdotes (“We met on WoW”)
You seem to be focusing your points on the lonelyness crisis, which is a real issue. Spending a decade without a social life is terrible, and I understand why someone who arrives at this point may consider their future to be hopeless.
But while it may be understandable that a person considers suicide in this situation, it is not a rational (as in: long-term optimal) decision. A person in this situation may be exhausted, may be at or past a breaking point where they do no longer find the strength to keep on trying, and make the decision to commit suicide.
This decision derives from a temporary, emotionally charged state. (I consider fatique an emotion here.)
The rational (as in: long-term optimal) decision would be to keep trying. To keep going on until it just so happens that you exchange a few words with a stranger. Until it just so happens that you get to build foundational social skills, easing the possibility to approach others. Until it just so happens that you get an opportunity to talk to someone, and get to know them. Or maybe one day, out of a wind of confidence (or desperation) you approach just the right person. Or maybe that person approaches you. Or maybe you take to more unusual manners of getting to know people, that you find to work for you.
And once you found a start, you can build off it. You can extend your social circle, find a partner, start a family, and live happily ever after.
Quit the bs, I’ve been trying for a decade and it doesn’t work
You have many years to go, and once you find a ledge to stand on, they will all be worth it.
are you a lighthouse keeper living far from any city and getting your groceries airdropped?
find friends even in sub-optimal situations (e.g. at a grocery store)
You seem to be focusing your points on the loneliness crisis, which is a real issue
Given my mention of transportation, I am talking about not being able to easily access even a grocery store (but also, terrible idea). Yes, not being near a city.
However to your 3rd quote here, my mention of WoW was not simply about loneliness but the idea that one may find help via someone online (likely a romantic partner wanting to cohabitate and maybe even help someone else move to a better place, though even less likely for half of the population) but I cut some of that context for brevity.
(also the idea that somebody can/will provide that much help is already not great)
keep on trying
keep trying
keep going
build foundational social skills
maybe one day
maybe that person
maybe
If money/employment and depression+personality disorders weren’t a thing on top of everything else already mentioned yeah, maybe.
And on top of that there are other deal-breakers like not wanting kids, or being non-religious in USA (which on its own cuts out a huge chunk of the population, especially in more rural areas), not someone who goes to bars. At this point, you may as well tell someone to play the lottery. In a game of numbers, not everyone has good odds.
Although as others will point out a relationship (or having friends) is likely not going to be a fix-all. So this is more like having 5+ major core issues that even one of which is unlikely to to improve particularly because of the other issues.
Downvote. I’ve always supported the concept of suicide, provided it’s a rational response rather than an emotional one.
There was a scientist in the early and mid 1900s whose name escapes me. And he was known for discovering cures for disease, and different elements, and such.
He came to a point where he decided that he hadn’t enjoyed living for a long time, and he saw no logical reason he would ever start enjoying life in the future. So rather than play it out until the end, hating every year of it, he decided to kill himself in his 30s.
He wrote this letter stating not to cry over his loss. Not to get emotional. He just came to the logical decision that he would rather not suffer through life for 50 years. Just end it now.
That is a STARK contrast to something like “my wife just left me, and I lost a million dollars, and my dog ran away!!!”
Because for those people, they are dealing with temporary but intense problems which over time will eventually subside.
However, if you’re in in your 30s or 40s, and you look back on your life, and you struggle with questions such as “what makes you happy?” because you’ve never been happy, then I support suicide. I think it’s selfish to force others to suffer through life, for decades, with nobody thinking what it’s like for them, simply because there’s a stigma against it perpetrated by people who only even talk to you 3-4 times a year.
I think it’s it’s selfish to expect them not to commit suicide, and suffer in silence, because it would make you sad for 3-5 minutes when you find out. Or maybe it would make you feel guilty for a few minutes that you didn’t reach out.
But after that, the feeling would pass, you’d go back to never thinking about them anymore, except this way, they won’t also be suffering on their own.
There is no “rational” reasoning that leads to the conclusion that you’ll never be happy (unless you’re in an actively harmful situation, such as a torture prison or with an extreme chronic disease).
You cannot tell whether you’ll be happy, you cannot know who you’ll be ten years in the future.
Claiming that you won’t ever be happy simply because you haven’t been happy so far is short sighted and narrow minded.
Suicide is always unreasonable.
Well you’ve contradicted yourself there 'cause you
said we were stationarygave 2 examples of rational reasoning a minute ago.I think when someone has been suffering consistently for over a decade it’s not short-sighted. Especially considering long-term issues with their environment. Chronic illness (ruining QoL and shortening lifespan), lack of transportation, no social life etc adds to it. The glaring societal problems aren’t new, and are likely getting worse rather than better.
Even looking at anecdotes (“We met on WoW”), lots of people don’t even have the circumstances to allow that slim chance.
I assumed that it was given that I exclude the example (with the implication of it not usually being the case for people considering suicide).
I struggle to imagine a scenario where you actually have no chance of rebuilding a social life. What are you, a lighthouse keeper living far from any city and getting your groceries airdropped?
You may not be in a situation where rebuilding a social life is trivial, but 50 years is enough time to learn how to find friends even in sub-optimal situations (e.g. at a grocery store). It is enough time to weed through different people until you find some that match you.
You seem to be focusing your points on the lonelyness crisis, which is a real issue. Spending a decade without a social life is terrible, and I understand why someone who arrives at this point may consider their future to be hopeless.
But while it may be understandable that a person considers suicide in this situation, it is not a rational (as in: long-term optimal) decision. A person in this situation may be exhausted, may be at or past a breaking point where they do no longer find the strength to keep on trying, and make the decision to commit suicide.
This decision derives from a temporary, emotionally charged state. (I consider fatique an emotion here.)
The rational (as in: long-term optimal) decision would be to keep trying. To keep going on until it just so happens that you exchange a few words with a stranger. Until it just so happens that you get to build foundational social skills, easing the possibility to approach others. Until it just so happens that you get an opportunity to talk to someone, and get to know them. Or maybe one day, out of a wind of confidence (or desperation) you approach just the right person. Or maybe that person approaches you. Or maybe you take to more unusual manners of getting to know people, that you find to work for you.
And once you found a start, you can build off it. You can extend your social circle, find a partner, start a family, and live happily ever after.
You have many years to go, and once you find a ledge to stand on, they will all be worth it.
Given my mention of transportation, I am talking about not being able to easily access even a grocery store (but also, terrible idea). Yes, not being near a city.
However to your 3rd quote here, my mention of WoW was not simply about loneliness but the idea that one may find help via someone online (likely a romantic partner wanting to cohabitate and maybe even help someone else move to a better place, though even less likely for half of the population) but I cut some of that context for brevity.
(also the idea that somebody can/will provide that much help is already not great)
If money/employment and depression+personality disorders weren’t a thing on top of everything else already mentioned yeah, maybe.
And on top of that there are other deal-breakers like not wanting kids, or being non-religious in USA (which on its own cuts out a huge chunk of the population, especially in more rural areas), not someone who goes to bars. At this point, you may as well tell someone to play the lottery. In a game of numbers, not everyone has good odds.
Although as others will point out a relationship (or having friends) is likely not going to be a fix-all. So this is more like having 5+ major core issues that even one of which is unlikely to to improve particularly because of the other issues.