sigh

  • TCB13@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    No no, guys Mozilla are the good guys. They never did something nasty like bundling tons of spyware and 3rd party calls with Firefox nor adding unique IDs to every installation. Mozilla also acquired an ad analytics company recently for some reason.

      • TCB13@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        Nothing, not everyone liked it, the only difference is that my comment would result in a shit show of downvotes last week while not people are starting to realize what Mozilla/Firefox really is. Mozilla was never the “all savior” pained them to be and it only took Wireshark and a couple of minutes to see it.

        • supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz
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          6 hours ago

          Even if Mozilla/Firefox was at some point a healthy organization, the shear incredible disparity of power between Google and Mozilla/Firefox means that the probability that Mozilla/Firefox would remain a healthy, functional organization approaches zero over a long enough period of time.

          This is a problem that needs legislative action to destroy Google’s incredible power and pseudo-monopoly control of search.

          I am not saying Mozilla/Firefox isn’t toxic, but there a million ways that Mozilla/Firefox could end up a toxic entity and billions of dollars that are directly interested in that being the case so shrugs.

          …but yeah I agree with you, Mozilla/Firefox definitely didnt turn into a shithole overnight, but until recently criticizing them has been very difficuly to do in a lot of circles.

    • irreticent@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      adding unique IDs to every installation.

      I wasn’t familiar with that so I did a quick search. For anyone else interested here is some info about it:

      “Internet users who download the Firefox web browser from the official Mozilla website get a unique identifier attached to the installer that is submitted to Mozilla on install and first run.”

      […]

      “Firefox users who prefer to download the browser without the unique identifier may do so in the following two ways:”

      1. Download the Firefox installer from Mozilla’s HTTPS repository (formerly the FTP repository).

      2. Download Firefox from third-party download sites that host the installer, e.g., from Softonic.

      “The downloaded installers do not have the unique identifier, as they are identical whenever they are downloaded.”

      In the comments section someone says:

      “It seems that getting Firefox from GNU/Linux repos (Debian, etc.), doesn’t come with unique IDs.”

      • barsquid@lemmy.world
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        3 hours ago

        Must be for ad attribution and install tracking. Only something a major portion of their users are specifically trying to avoid when they’re choosing Firefox.

      • TCB13@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        Yeah repositories and FTP don’t include that, but it is kind shady that the first way to get it (website) for the majority of regular users (Windows/macOS) has a unique ID - after all this is the company that goes all in for privacy…

    • irreticent@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      bundling tons of spyware

      I couldn’t find any info about this with a quick search. Do you have any links to where I can read more about this?

      • MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml
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        2 days ago

        I have this in user.js:

        // settings user-test-programm
        user_pref("app.shield.optoutstudies.enabled", false);
        
        // dont use me as guinea pig
        user_pref("app.normandy.enabled", false);
        user_pref("app.normandy.optoutstudies.enabled", false);
        user_pref("messaging-system.rsexperimentloader.enabled", false);
        
        // side-loading of telemetry-extension
        user_pref("extensions.systemAddon.update.enabled", false);
        
        // disable Mozillas new tracking aggragation thingy
        user_pref("dom.private-attribution.submission.enabled", false,);
        
        // almost only for tracking useful
        user_pref("beacon.enabled", false); // so webpage can send (tracking) data before you close tab
        user_pref("browser.send_pings", false); // hyperlink auditing (click-tracking)
        

        Note: the last two are more nuanced.

        Argument for beacon is that webpages will use a more intrusive way with noticeable delay to upload data on tab close. I personally prefer that, as a warning, but never saw one after years.

        Argument for send_pings is, that trackers will use more mean and stealthier ways to track you, if they don’t have that interface (same as in private-attribution). I do know however, that companies who track you have high greed and low morale to begin with, and use all they can get to generate more money.

      • TCB13@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        Just fire up Wireshark and inspect what Firefox calls, a lot of calling home and even if you change all the settings and config parameters to something sane it will still contact a 3rd party analytics company. Mozilla also acquired an ad analytics company recently for some reason.

  • HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml
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    2 days ago

    I genuinely believe that the Mozilla board is secretly working for Google. They already get most of their funding from that search engine deal, is a backroom agreement to slowly run the organization into the ground in order to force the last holdouts over to Chrome that hard to believe?

      • WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        It’s better to treat incompetence as maliciousness, than to treat maliciousness as incompetence.

        The benefit of the doubt should only apply in the absence of a longstanding pattern of behavior to the contrary.

        IMO Mozilla has run out of goodwill.

        • aaaaace@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 day ago

          IMO Alphabet has run out of goodwill by abusing their market dominance in a more overt way.

          Looking forward to more aggressive action by FTC, note that tech donors have asked Harris for Lina Khan’s removal as a quid pro quo.

          • ✺roguetrick✺@lemmy.world
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            7 hours ago

            The key point is the courts only generally care about antitrust issues if they’re adversely affecting the consumer, and alphabet is starting to get into that territory.

    • servobobo@feddit.nl
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      1 day ago

      It’s in Google’s interest to keep Firefox/Mozilla alive to skirt antitrust laws, so any backdoor deal would be more making Chrome alternatives not look too attractive while keeping them on life support.

    • romp_2_door@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      I don’t think they’re working for Google but I’m convinced that they’re trying to setup their own advertising business

      Trying to get some of that sweet ad revenue money

      but Google controls so much of everything that of course they’re indirectly funded by Google, so it may look like they’re working for Google

      In this Tecnofeudalist reality that we live in, we all indirectly work for our feudal lords Google / Meta / Amazon. We are granted their grace and allowed to exist in their server space and use their internet cables. In return we have to work the land and give our data as a tribute.

  • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Ok wtf is Moxilla doing? They know their company is built on good community perception, right?

    • romp_2_door@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      I mean they’ve been pedaling AI crap for a while without negative backlash.

      Similarly they tried to ride the Blockchain train back in the crypto scam days and also didn’t face any backlash.

      They’ve publicly vouched to become an AI company and an advertising company without backlash.

      I think most Firefox users don’t care

      • s_s@lemm.ee
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        6 hours ago

        They are a Silicon Valley-based foundation half-heartedly rehashing Silicon Valley’s worst trends.

        The truth is, you have to do these sorts of things to attract and retain talent, even if they aren’t great ideas.

      • Chewy@discuss.tchncs.de
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        2 days ago

        What they mean with AI features is also their offline website translation feature, which is something I’ve wanted for years. The alternative is online Google website translation.

        • ᗪᗩᗰᑎ@lemmy.ml
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          7 hours ago

          I agree with you. It’s frustrating to see people lump in genuinely good AI/ML work like private on-device translations in attempts to discredit Mozilla. There are good criticisms against them. They’ve made mistakes. There’s zero need to lump in AI/ML.

      • boonhet@lemm.ee
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        2 days ago

        I think most Firefox users don’t care

        Oh we care, but there’s no alternative besides Chrome and Safari and those companies are even worse (Google definitely is, anyway, Apple is debatable)

        Luckily there’s still alternatives like Librewolf that unfortunately still use Mozilla’s browser engine.

        I do hope the Servo project will be ready to use in a production browser soon.

          • ᗪᗩᗰᑎ@lemmy.ml
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            7 hours ago

            Hard agree. Apple’s ecosystem is primarily completely closed-source. If you abandon them or they abandon you you’re left with nothing. At least with open source-based projects like Chrome/Firefox you can fork the code and not have to start from zero against a goliath. Apple would never give its customers that kind of leverage.

          • boonhet@lemm.ee
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            2 days ago

            Compared to Google? Idk. Google doesn’t sell any products to the end user so that says a lot about who the customers are.

            Apple sells products. Apple users ARE the customers.

        • Possibly linux@lemmy.zip
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          1 day ago

          We are stuck with Firefox based browsers for a few years at the minimum as it takes a really long time to develop an engine.

          Also Servo is very much not the only thing around. Ladybird exists as well

  • aberrate_junior_beatnik@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    It’s truly wild how hard of a heel turn mozilla has taken. I’m going to cancel my recurring donations to them, and get off all of their products.

      • lud@lemm.ee
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        1 day ago

        Because they are a non profit which makes stuff one likes?

        • Quail4789@lemmy.ml
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          4 hours ago

          Firefox isn’t made by the non-profit. What do you like that the foundation does such that they’d deserve a donation over a shit ton of open-source projects that need funding?

        • LWD@lemm.eeOP
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          2 days ago

          Is Mozilla in on it too? Because they’re the ones who orchestrated laying off Steve Teixeira.

          • zante@lemmy.wtf
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            2 days ago

            this week the chat has all been “Mozilla are going in the wrong direction , They’re selling out, they using AI, they’re hiring ad experts”. - all over xitter all over lemmy.

            Now someone dug up this old story about teixeira Suing them, because he claims they demoted him because of cancer. A

            With the scarcity of facts available at this stage , one thing we know is that both AI and advertising were championed by…. Texeira - ex of Microsoft, twitter and Facebook.

            So, an alternate but equally plausible narrative, might be “Teixeira strayed to far into commercialisation, received a shitty performance review, and got moved out of his role”

            • LWD@lemm.eeOP
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              1 day ago

              Okay, your reply is kind of ironic because, in your defense of Mozilla, you’ve opened up new ways you find Mozilla to be bad. For example, "“Mozilla are going in the wrong direction , They’re selling out, they using AI, they’re hiring ad experts”

              Either you believe Mozilla venturing into AI and ads are bad, or it’s good… but exposing it hurts Mozilla. Which?

              Now someone dug up this old story about teixeira Suing them

              Mozilla fired Teixeira a couple days ago. That’s not old.

              both AI and advertising were championed by…. Texeira

              I know you’re trying to get in a gotcha here, but according to Mozilla’s own testimony:

              “[Teixeira] failed to adequately address the considerable concerns and feedback the Board and CEO raised regarding product strategy, including actively resisting requests that he engage in generative Artificial Intelligence (“GenAI”)

            • Carighan Maconar@lemmy.world
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              2 days ago

              Yeah especially if you look on reddit, it’s a handful of accounts with a very concerted effort.

              Don’t get me wrong it’s shitty behaviour, but it’s also fairly obviously some are getting paid to suddenly do this.

              • LWD@lemm.eeOP
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                1 day ago

                Which accounts do you believe are witches paid shills?

                Shill accusations are fun, because they can’t be disproven, and their weight is informed solely by the social capital of the person making the accusations.

    • romp_2_door@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      holy shit you donated money to these wackos?

      with so many OOS projects out there in need of funding, so many devs roughing it up, you donate to the advertising company Mozilla that has zero cash needs, they give million dollar bonuses to their executives every year.

      Literally giving money to wacko rich executives

      • Quail4789@lemmy.ml
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        1 day ago

        Haha hard to believe people are actually donating to Mozilla so that they can spend that money on political donations, exec salaries, and useless projects they kill shortly afterwards.

  • Quintus@lemmy.ml
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    2 days ago

    It’s almost like they are intentionally trying to get in trouble.

    • LWD@lemm.eeOP
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      2 days ago

      Honestly. Even my most cynical assumption was that Mozilla would subtly pressure him to leave the company, making life harder for him in ways that wouldn’t be possible to legally prove.

      I haven’t seen anything this egregious since Elon Musk fired Halli.

  • hperrin@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    I just canceled my MDN Plus subscription. Man, Mozilla has been so disappointing recently. I have to wonder if Google infiltrated them or something.

    • orcrist@lemm.ee
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      2 days ago

      It doesn’t really matter if they’ve been infiltrated, because they’re so dependent on Google’s cash. The money corrupts, even if there are no specific moles.

      • PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        Sure, but it’s worth asking why the management is so poor. Many people have theorized that it’s because Google is pulling the strings; It would be in Google’s best interest to keep Firefox around on life support, because it helps them avoid antitrust lawsuits if they can point to Firefox and go “nope not every browser is Chromium based!” But it’s also in Google’s best interest to whittle Firefox’s usage down to near zero, which is what every single recent Mozilla decision has been aiming to do.

        Mozilla was getting paid a lot of money by Google before Google got their hand slapped in an antitrust lawsuit. Many people have theorized that since that lawsuit, Google has pivoted to making deals directly with Mozilla’s management instead.

        • ᗪᗩᗰᑎ@lemmy.ml
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          6 hours ago

          Sure, but it’s worth asking why the management is so poor

          Could just be incompetence.

          Working in a bigger corp and seeing people continuously fail upwards or get hired into positions where they run around like headless chickens - sometimes the reason is leadership putting people in the wrong role and not holding them accountable because its easy to “fudge metrics” and believe things are going well.

          The strategy I’ve seen far too often:

          • Deliver a half-working project that is bursting at the seams and requires more work and resources (or introduces a technical debt that most people can’t even begin to comprehend).
          • Leadership declares it a success because a long enough train wreck takes time to be noticed when you’re near the end of the tracks and the people at the front lines are doing everything they can to avoid it.
          • Find a new job before the shit hits the fan (typically hold off until your RSU’s fully vest) and talk about how you implemented X while saving company Y and how successful it was.
          • Leave the place worse off than before.
          • The project/implementation starts showing signs of failure and leadership blames others (because the guy who implemented things is now gone and he did things so well how could it possibly be their fault?)

          Too often I’ve seen meetings between management not even understanding what their “core issues” are. How do you even make a business better if you don’t even understand your pain points?

          It’s both fascinating and scary.

  • DynamoSunshirtSandals@possumpat.io
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    2 days ago

    If Mozilla really starts to go downhill, what are the chances we get a Linux kernel-style community fork that we can rely on instead? Curious why that hasn’t happened before – perhaps because Mozilla has always toed the line of not-quite-awful enough?

    I just hope we can keep an alternative browser engine alive. Would be nice if some rich person would just set up a funding model that can pay a few devs to keep it going indefinitely without ads or spyware.

    • thingsiplay@beehaw.org
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      Because developing and maintaining an entire browser is a huge task. That’s why we don’t see much competition in browsers (I mean independent browsers). Also Mozilla isn’t doing that bad, the browser is still really good. It’s not the technical side that is a problem, its mostly marketing and the image of Mozilla.

    • FarraigePlaisteach@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      It’s one thing to tweak a browser that comes in kit form from Mozilla’s code. It’s another thing altogether to continue maintaining it if Firefox ever dies. I don’t know if any of these clones have the kind of teams needed to do all the work Mozilla have done for them.

    • romp_2_door@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      Don’t you like the Ladybird Browser and the browser based in Servo projects as alternatives?

      They’re literally happening right now, not ready for prime time but with continued development and support they’ll become usuable

          • Chewy@discuss.tchncs.de
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            4 hours ago

            Yes, and I seriously don’t expect Ladybird to get anywhere near being a complete browser like Firefox.

            Even the idea of being a “web standards first” browser seems prone to failure, looking at how many websites these days “work best on Google Chrome”.

            Firefox follows web standards pretty closely, and then some websites don’t work correctly because they don’t support a new Chrome feature not yet in a proper standard. How will this be different for Ladybird.

            I’ll be positively surprised if Ladybird gets to a point where it works for all websites, just like I hope Firefox continues to do the same.

  • Scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech
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    2 days ago

    Jesus isn’t rule number one of an employee suing you is to NOT FIRE THEM?

    Seriously Monty Burns did this. Monty fucking burns. A cartoon villain

      • Scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech
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        Season 2 - Bart gets hit by a car. Bart gets hit by Mr Burns while skateboarding. Homer uses Lionel Hutz to sue his employer, Mr Burns for 1 million dollars. On receiving notice, Mr Burns tells Smithers to fire Homer. Smithers asks “Do you think that’s wise, sir? Think of the headlines”

        Mr Burns imagining a newspaper headline that reads "Burns fires ungrateful employee"

  • SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Prolonged, multi-level fuckery with dozens of witnesses - and that’s just with what they did to this one guy.

  • cm0002@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Yet another thing to add to my growing pile of reasons that Mozilla is enshittifying. I wonder what tomorrow’s reasons will be?

    Slight sidetrack, I thought Mastodon was federated with Lemmy? Or is it just Boost that can’t handle Mastodon links?

    • LWD@lemm.eeOP
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      You can read Lemmy threads in Mastodon clients (although it is messy and gross), but not vice versa. I couldn’t tell you the reason why.

      • Draconic NEO@lemmy.world
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        It’s because the devs just don’t want to. Not really sure why, would be good to have that kind of interoperability.