In an unexpected mask off “secure” email and VPN provider Proton took the stance of siding with the fascist MAGA Reps. Proton’s services are no option for me and many others any longer. Let’s collect and discuss alternatives (E2E encrypted email and VPN) here 🔐👇

Always try to provide:

-Server location (jurisdiction)

-Governance

-Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency

-User experience/ease of use (grade 1 to 10, lets take Proton as a benchmark with an 8)

-Pricing and links

If you know alternative setups, feel free to share, too.

#ProtonExodus

Background: https://lemmy.ca/comment/13913116

Edit:typo

    • The Hobbyist@lemmy.zip
      2·
      1 year ago

      Am I the only that don’t see this the same way as the rest? I am in way way endorsing or supporting MAGA, but they did take action against big tech (though for reasons of retribution) and I see Proton only acknowledging a good person being designated to lead the next antitrust efforts, apparently with a good track record.

      Proton also acknowledges Lina Kahn who has done a great job, nominated under Joe Biden.

      Ultimately, I feel like from a perspective of Proton, any win against Big Tech, is a good win, and I can’t disagree.

      There is a longer discussion to be had around how the dems were supported by oligarchs and I think that’s what Proton is referring to, they decided to turn a blind eye under the Obama administration for instance. Bernie Sanders goes to lengths about this in this interview, illuminating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzkgWDCucNY

      So all in all, maga sucks, new pick probably good, and in my view, proton not actually endorsing maga/trump but just acknowledging a good pick.

      Did I miss something?

      • Eatspancakes84@lemmy.world
        4·
        1 year ago

        The main part of the message that pissed me off was the idea that GOP sides with the “little guy”. First, it’s demonstrably false. Second, he is a tech CEO. He wouldn’t recognise a little guy before his security crew has time to forcibly remove him.

  • marcie (she/her)@lemmy.ml
    6·
    1 year ago

    Truly unhinged that they decided to come out on this. Fellas, you are fucking Swiss why throw yourself under the bus for the US election

    • Empricorn@feddit.nlEnglish
      2·
      1 year ago

      Because terrible people literally can’t help themselves. Wait for people to show you who they truly are, they will…

    • AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2·
      1 year ago

      I thought they were talking about the elementary particle—I was afraid we’d have to find some other way of manifesting our physical existence.

      • Hannes@feddit.org
        3·
        1 year ago

        If this wasn’t enough of a wakeupcall to not put all the eggs in one basket then what is? Companies are literally doing this to lock you into their service so it’s harder to switch since you then have to find X new services instead of just one.

        Better go with one that’d specialized for each service you need…

  • sadTruth@lemmy.hogru.chEnglish
    1·
    1 year ago

    There are 2 kinds of companies:

    1. Evil companies
    2. Companies that are not evil YET.

    What this means in this case is that only your own E-Mail server running on a Raspi in your own home can be considered private or secure in the long run. Unfortunately this is really really hard to do, which is the only reason i have not done it yet.
    Personally i do not consider any E-Mail private, because E-Mail is not E2E-encrypted, and 99.9% of times one side of the conversation is going to be hosted on some shady companies servers.

    Of course Proton delivers a great service, because they make an insecure protocol a little less insecure, and i personally use Proton mail. Unfortunately their closed-source nature makes it impossible to switch providers without abandoning their great software.

    As for services like Drive, they can actually be hosted privately and securely on your own Raspi with stuff like NextCloud/OwnCloud.
    For those that can’t/don’t want to self-host, i would recommend paying for a hoster that hosts FOSS software and contributes to it either with money or code. In that case you would probably loose E2E-encryption, but gain the ability to switch providers once your provider turns on you. In that case at least some of your money would continue to offer value to you by having improved the software you are still using.

  • Roopappy@lemmy.world
    1·
    1 year ago

    I’ve been doing research into this because I want to degoogle. Looking for hosted and secure Mail, Calendar, Drive… maybe docs if possible. I don’t mind paying as long as I’m a customer and not a product to be sold.

    My short list was: Mailbox.org, Zoho, and Notion.

    Then there are the services I don’t understand as much because I don’t really want to self host or step into server maintenance… NextCloud, OwnCloud, LibreCloud, OnlyOffice. Maybe someone could straighten me out with those if I’m off base.

  • Ecco the dolphin@lemmy.ml
    1·
    1 year ago

    Trump’s terrible politics aside:

    1. the Republican party is pushing legislation which requires you to identify yourself to view porn

    2. you can get around this with a VPN

    3. proton is a VPN (nonprofit, but still).

    I’ll be switching email providers when I can… I can’t remember when my subscription ends.

  • bluemoon@piefed.socialEnglish
    1·
    6 months ago

    StartMail, netherlands. runs StartPage, a searchengine. politically engaged company in europe. pro GDPR & eu politicians being educated more than they have been. POP & IMAP, i use clients like ArcaneChat on android and ThunderBird on desktop.

    MullvadVPN, sweden. have been raided by police and have hade no data to disclose. 5€ a month for up to five devices. does DAITA and multihopping. has own client, streamlined to use, also performs as well with wireguard.

  • Timber@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    1·
    1 year ago

    systemli.org

    • Germany (I think)
    • Politically leftist
    • Very nice people
    • User experience 8, works fine and people put a lot of effort in
    • It’s free, but you need an invite code
  • ziproot@lemmy.ml
    1·
    1 year ago

    Server locations: Riseup is in the US (Washington state), so keep that in mind. Disroot is in the Netherlands (part of the EU).

    Governance: Riseup: Look at their “about us” page. Disroot: Look at their “about” page. The terms of service are more detailed. tl;dr: As far as I can tell, these are run by leftists.

    Integrity/Transparency: I have no idea how to grade this.

    Ease of Use: Subjective. Riseup VPN is just: install the client, turn it on or off. Disroot is much better with a mail client of some kind, so if you already use one, it’s probably a 10, otherwise, the webmail server isn’t that great. Disroot also requries manual encryption (I’m biased here because I use Kmail which makes PGP really easy to use).

    Pricing and Links: Free https://riseup.net/en/vpn https://disroot.org/en/services/email

    tl;dr: Use collective-run services, not corporate-run services

    • perestroika@lemm.ee
      1·
      1 year ago

      Regarding e-mail: “riseup.net” requires that a long-time user vouch for a new user and invite them. If the new user quickly turns into a complaint magnet (there’s a coming-of-age period after which their actions are considered their own), both the user and the inviter will be held responsible (kicked off the service). I think (hope) they aren’t so strict with VPN, but they have limited people and could not administer a mess made by a big bunch of people.

      Needless to say, none of my (anarchist) comrades have ever been kicked off RiseUp, but they don’t send spam or threats, they just send their cat pictures encrypted with GPG, causing the authorities endless work. :)

      Just like every reasonable service, RiseUp has a few technical mechanisms to ensure they aren’t compromised (disk and inbox encryption, etc) but obviously those can’t help against a dedicated and well-resourced adversary.

      So, whatever e-mail server you use - use PGP / GPG. :) Then the adversary must compromise your device. If you are hardcore, encrypt and sign on an offline device. Then the adversary must breach the air gap.

      (I used to sign releases for some anonymity-related project years ago. Those were the times when I seriously took measures because others depended on me. Currently, not so much.)

      P.S. As for the lack of resources at RiseUp: this can be alleviated by donating to them. Which reminds me, I should set up a small regular donation to their representative organization in the EU.

  • HappyFrog@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    1·
    1 year ago

    I’ll still continue using proton, as I haven’t seen them staying from their goal just yet, but I’d love to see some alternatives non the less.

  • UntitledQuitting@reddthat.com
    1·
    1 year ago

    This may sound drastic but really I think the only move for Proton is fire Andy. They’re a non-profit, the board need to step in. He has single-handedly cost the company both current and potential customers by just not being smart enough to keep his mouth shut. This makes him an idiot, and an idiot as CEO is not a good look (see: anything musk)

    • Dr. Moose@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      1 year ago

      Andy Yen really dropped the ball especially because he hasn’t done anything significant to really establish trust in his leadership and the biggest thing he does is tank the company image.

      Dude had the easiest job in the world — shut up, look smart, pretend to care and delegate. Instead, he jumps head first into left vs right of US politics on Twitter of all places 🤡

    • vga@sopuli.xyz
      1·
      1 year ago

      I’m not going to change from Proton because of this, but what you’re suggesting is probably not a bad idea. CEOs are and should be easy to replace and mistakes like this are pretty standard reason why CEOs get booted.

      edit removed some rather incriminating, unverified claims about Andy Yen