All communities have moderation, depending on the desired results.
-Anarchist instances nuke Nazi and Tankie viewpoints because they consider them authoritarian (see db0 and quokk)
-Tankie instances nuke Nazi and Lib viewpoints because we consider them authoritarian (see hexbear and lemmygrad)
-Lib instances nuke Tankie viewpoints because they consider them authoritarian (see .world)
-Nazi instances nuke Tankie viewpoints because they’re nazis (see feddit and piefed)
As a tankie, I take pride that Nazis and Libs nuke my content, and consider it sad that anarchists don’t reflect on why anarchist content doesn’t get nearly as nuked from mainstream capitalism.
Rimu considers the viewpoint that the 1930s famine in the soviet union being a combination of mismanagement and adverse weather conditions, rather than a deliberate targeting of ethnic groups, to be “genocide denial” and thus worthy of total censorship. This is despite the fact that the mainstream contemporary opinion on the 1930s famine even among reputable liberal historians is that it was as I said.
[data] indicate that the famine was real, the result of a failure of economic policy, of the ‘revolution from above,’ rather than of a ‘successful’ nationality policy against Ukrainians or other ethnic groups.
Tauger believes it was a failure of economic policy, not an intentional attack on ethnic Ukrainians. The 1930s famine was a combination of drought, flooding, and mismanagement. Further, the Kulaks, wealthy bourgeois farmers, magnified matters by killing their own crops in the midst of a famine rather than letting the Red Army collectivize them.
Other historians such as Michael Ellman consider the Holodomor a crime against humanity, but do not classify it as a genocide.[181] Economist Steven Rosefielde and historian Robert Conquest consider the death toll to be primarily due to state policy, and poor harvests.[182] Following the dissolution of the Soviet Union, Conquest was granted access to the Soviet state archives alongside other western academics.[183] In 2004, Wheatcroft published a private correspondence that he had with Conquest. In the exchange, Conquest wrote that he is now of the opinion that the Holodomor was not purposefully inflicted by Stalin but “what I argue is that with resulting famine imminent, he could have prevented it, but put ‘Soviet interest’ other than feeding the starving first – thus consciously abetting it”.[184] In an interview recorded in 2006 Conquest stated the Holodomor should be recognized as an attack on the Ukrainian people and discussed problems with the use of the term genocide.[185]
Robert Davies, Stephen Kotkin, Stephen Wheatcroft and J. Arch Getty reject the notion that Stalin intentionally wanted to kill Ukrainians, but conclude that Stalinist policies and widespread incompetence among government officials set the stage for famine in Ukraine and other Soviet republics.[186][187][108] Anne Applebaum believes that the famine was planned to undermine Ukrainian identity but discusses how shifts in understanding of the term genocide mean that it is more difficult to apply now that it was when the term was initially conceived. Another argument she puts forward is that the question of genocide is not as important as it once was because it was a proxy debate about Ukraine and Ukrainians’ right to exist, a right which no longer needs historic justification.[188]
And this is despite the fact [that no supporting evidence for this conspiracy theory has been found](Here’s an example of investigating claims made by the Falun Gong about organ harvesting, with no evidence found, even from western investigation.)
Overall, Rimu in particular promotes an unquestioning, dogmatic view of history that goes well beyond what’s considered definitive even in the west. Rimu also therefore uses the admin position of PieFed.social to silence any reasonable, developed dissent, no matter how well-sourced.
These are not Nazi viewpoints. Moreover, he doesn’t “promote” them other than anyone else promoting what they say as specific users. You think anyone who believes the Holodomor was genocide is a nazi? That’s your definition?
So if I held a similar position on the Holodomor, that would make me a nazi according to you?
You think believing the Holodomor is a genocide is inherently far-right? I don’t think either of them are inherently far-right (especially not the former). Also, by “users” you specifically mean Rimu here. Would others hold the same opinion? Sure. But they also do so across the Threadiverse - not specifically on piefed, or piefed.social in specific. If you’re going to accuse Piefed of being specifically far-right on this basis, then you have to also throw that at most other instance - which they didn’t do.
Can you answer why you’re insistent on analyzing processes outside of the context they exist in? If you’re not going to respond to my criticisms of your metaphysical outlook from last time, then defend it, otherwise all I can do is continue to point out that you keep trying to slice away context and view processes in a vacuum that doesn’t exist and doesn’t represent reality accurately as a consequence.
It seems to me to be self-evident that it just isn’t nazi to claim the holodomor was a genocide. You may think it’s wrong, incorrect, perhaps suggestive of unjustified prejudice against communism - but it just isn’t nazi. It’s a nasty vile smear to throw at people. No context makes it so (not even remotely sure what you’re referring to in this case). Rimu is not anti-semitic, Rimu is not a white supremacist, Rimu does not support a one-party authoritarian dictatorship.
And even if it was: If you’re going to accuse Piefed of being specifically far-right or nazi on this basis, then you have to also throw that at most other instances - which the other user didn’t do here.
It’s incredibly obvious that they are talking about right-wing views in general, and you’re laser-focusing on the German Nazi Party. That’s why discussion with you never gets anywhere.
Banned from that specific community, or banned from the instance entirely? Because being banned from the instance, which did happen, was not for that reason.
Sorry, do you hold the same accusations to lemmy.zip too, as the user is from that instance? Are they also not nazis by your logic?
Also, are you saying anyone who looks past any threat, or inciendary language or violent rhetoric of any kind to someone who is a communist, no matter the specific context is automatically a nazi?
If the threat of violence from another user directed at me had happened in a .zip instance and I had gotten banned instead of them, I’d be making the same accusation. It happened on piefed, though, no need for hypotheticals.
If the threat of violence from another user directed at me had happened in a .zip instance and I had gotten banned instead of them, I’d be making the same accusation.
So you don’t apparently expect lemmy.zip to respond to users like that, but you do in piefed.social? What? Because the lemmy.zip user did it on a remote community? Also, how do you know the instance ban and community ban are directly connected?
Also, whether or not you characterise it as a threat (I think it’s unsavoury and emotive and violent rhetoric, but not really a threat as such unless you specifically plan to go to Poland or something) - it doesn’t automatically make them or someone a nazi.
You can just say “it’s not that bad to threaten violence to communists” or “I disagree with piefed being a Nazi-bar instance” instead of playing rhetorical and asking 12 questions per comment, we’re gonna move on much faster.
Isn’t a tankie an authoritarian communist or am I getting wires crossed here? I thought the term was coined from the 56 stamping out of the Hungarian revolution with tanks by authoritarians… Not sure that’s something I’d be proud of but please correct me if I’m wrong.
Tankie is a left-punching slur against Marxist-Leninists, which I choose to appropriate. We call liberals “libs”, not dronies despite them supporting Obama even when he was murdering civilians in the middle east using drones. As for the stomping of the antisemitic pogroms in the post-fascist 1956 Hungary, I refer you to comrade Cowbee since they are a lot more well-versed in the topic than I am.
I’m proud of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology that uplifted a billion people from destitute poverty and colonialism towards industrialization, grantez universal healthcare and free education to the highest level, guarantees jobs and housing to every person, tripled life expectancy where it was allowed to exist, and saved Europe from Nazism.
All communities have moderation, depending on the desired results.
-Anarchist instances nuke Nazi and Tankie viewpoints because they consider them authoritarian (see db0 and quokk)
-Tankie instances nuke Nazi and Lib viewpoints because we consider them authoritarian (see hexbear and lemmygrad)
-Lib instances nuke Tankie viewpoints because they consider them authoritarian (see .world)
-Nazi instances nuke Tankie viewpoints because they’re nazis (see feddit and piefed)
As a tankie, I take pride that Nazis and Libs nuke my content, and consider it sad that anarchists don’t reflect on why anarchist content doesn’t get nearly as nuked from mainstream capitalism.
Can you tell me what nazi viewpoints are promoted on Piefed please? Be specific.
Rimu considers the viewpoint that the 1930s famine in the soviet union being a combination of mismanagement and adverse weather conditions, rather than a deliberate targeting of ethnic groups, to be “genocide denial” and thus worthy of total censorship. This is despite the fact that the mainstream contemporary opinion on the 1930s famine even among reputable liberal historians is that it was as I said.
For instance, Mark Tauger wrote:
Tauger believes it was a failure of economic policy, not an intentional attack on ethnic Ukrainians. The 1930s famine was a combination of drought, flooding, and mismanagement. Further, the Kulaks, wealthy bourgeois farmers, magnified matters by killing their own crops in the midst of a famine rather than letting the Red Army collectivize them.
This, to Rimu, is considered to be genocide denial. This is despite Wikipedia’s own acknowledgement that “scholars continue to debate whether the human-made Soviet famine was a central act in a campaign of genocide,[169] or a tragic byproduct of rapid Soviet industrialization and the collectivization of agriculture.[170]:”
Further, Rimu repeats the far-right McCain Institute talking points about supposed “organ harvesting” in China towards the far-right Falun Gong cult:
And this is despite the fact [that no supporting evidence for this conspiracy theory has been found](Here’s an example of investigating claims made by the Falun Gong about organ harvesting, with no evidence found, even from western investigation.)
Overall, Rimu in particular promotes an unquestioning, dogmatic view of history that goes well beyond what’s considered definitive even in the west. Rimu also therefore uses the admin position of PieFed.social to silence any reasonable, developed dissent, no matter how well-sourced.
Was that specific enough?
These are not Nazi viewpoints. Moreover, he doesn’t “promote” them other than anyone else promoting what they say as specific users. You think anyone who believes the Holodomor was genocide is a nazi? That’s your definition?
So if I held a similar position on the Holodomor, that would make me a nazi according to you?
The propogation of far-right views by PieFed users and the head dev is what @Riverside@reddthat.com is referring to.
You think believing the Holodomor is a genocide is inherently far-right? I don’t think either of them are inherently far-right (especially not the former). Also, by “users” you specifically mean Rimu here. Would others hold the same opinion? Sure. But they also do so across the Threadiverse - not specifically on piefed, or piefed.social in specific. If you’re going to accuse Piefed of being specifically far-right on this basis, then you have to also throw that at most other instance - which they didn’t do.
Can you answer why you’re insistent on analyzing processes outside of the context they exist in? If you’re not going to respond to my criticisms of your metaphysical outlook from last time, then defend it, otherwise all I can do is continue to point out that you keep trying to slice away context and view processes in a vacuum that doesn’t exist and doesn’t represent reality accurately as a consequence.
It seems to me to be self-evident that it just isn’t nazi to claim the holodomor was a genocide. You may think it’s wrong, incorrect, perhaps suggestive of unjustified prejudice against communism - but it just isn’t nazi. It’s a nasty vile smear to throw at people. No context makes it so (not even remotely sure what you’re referring to in this case). Rimu is not anti-semitic, Rimu is not a white supremacist, Rimu does not support a one-party authoritarian dictatorship.
And even if it was: If you’re going to accuse Piefed of being specifically far-right or nazi on this basis, then you have to also throw that at most other instances - which the other user didn’t do here.
It’s incredibly obvious that they are talking about right-wing views in general, and you’re laser-focusing on the German Nazi Party. That’s why discussion with you never gets anywhere.
Sure. I can point you to it: I was threatened with physical violence by a nationalist and I got banned for it (the person who threatened me wasn’t)
Banned from that specific community, or banned from the instance entirely? Because being banned from the instance, which did happen, was not for that reason.
What do you call someone who allows threats of physical violence to communists. Clue: their kind murdered millions of communists in WW2!
Sorry, do you hold the same accusations to lemmy.zip too, as the user is from that instance? Are they also not nazis by your logic?
Also, are you saying anyone who looks past any threat, or inciendary language or violent rhetoric of any kind to someone who is a communist, no matter the specific context is automatically a nazi?
If the threat of violence from another user directed at me had happened in a .zip instance and I had gotten banned instead of them, I’d be making the same accusation. It happened on piefed, though, no need for hypotheticals.
So you don’t apparently expect lemmy.zip to respond to users like that, but you do in piefed.social? What? Because the lemmy.zip user did it on a remote community? Also, how do you know the instance ban and community ban are directly connected?
Also, whether or not you characterise it as a threat (I think it’s unsavoury and emotive and violent rhetoric, but not really a threat as such unless you specifically plan to go to Poland or something) - it doesn’t automatically make them or someone a nazi.
You can just say “it’s not that bad to threaten violence to communists” or “I disagree with piefed being a Nazi-bar instance” instead of playing rhetorical and asking 12 questions per comment, we’re gonna move on much faster.
Isn’t a tankie an authoritarian communist or am I getting wires crossed here? I thought the term was coined from the 56 stamping out of the Hungarian revolution with tanks by authoritarians… Not sure that’s something I’d be proud of but please correct me if I’m wrong.
Tankie is a left-punching slur against Marxist-Leninists, which I choose to appropriate. We call liberals “libs”, not dronies despite them supporting Obama even when he was murdering civilians in the middle east using drones. As for the stomping of the antisemitic pogroms in the post-fascist 1956 Hungary, I refer you to comrade Cowbee since they are a lot more well-versed in the topic than I am.
I’m proud of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology that uplifted a billion people from destitute poverty and colonialism towards industrialization, grantez universal healthcare and free education to the highest level, guarantees jobs and housing to every person, tripled life expectancy where it was allowed to exist, and saved Europe from Nazism.