I am of the age to have kids, some of my friends have them, but I have mixed feelings about it, just wondering about other people’s experiences.
I have a daughter. She’s the best thing that ever happened to me. Sounds corny as fuck, but it’s true. I don’t regret a thing. The first 3 years are tough, but also super cute. After that it’s a freaking miracle on 2 legs. Sometimes I think we should have had a second child shortly after but we already put in so much energy to set her up for life. I don’t think we could have extended that for another child. Turns out she’s neurodivergent, just like me. It takes a bit more effort raising someone like that, but it’s totally worth it.
I bet there are people here fuming at my post already because of climate change and whatnot. I believe humanity has faced way worse and yet we’re still here. If there is a meaning to life, it is going to be survival. Can’t survive without procreation.
Have kids. The only regret is the world we brought them into. Wouldn’t trade them for anything. But we have many fears about their future. We still thought the world could be saved with recycling and buying efficient cars. Dubya was an anomaly. Things would return to their boring 1990’s progression. Not anymore.
Climate change is essentially unstoppable at this point, the only choices are how bad it will be. Politics globally seem to be shifting to right wing populism, nationalism, fascism. Good luck if your kids aren’t straight, white males. Economically the system stopped making sense. Worthless companies worth billions. Billionaires with private space programs. A new gilded age with widening disparity. Companies literally paying homage to the new “king” hoping for some kind of investiture or favor.
E: point being the world is pointed in an objectively worse direction.
I have them, they are great. Here are a few obvious things I’ve learned that I didn’t appreciate beforehand:
The complexity of the endeavor rises exponentially with the number of kids. That is to say, 3 is a much bigger leap from 2 than 2 was from 1.
They get dramatically more expensive and complicated as they get older. All that exhausting baby activity is the easy part. As you start to figure out how to do it, the rules shift and you have to get learning again.
I never imagined how much of adult life as a parent revolves around the literal management of shit. Between kids, pets, and aging parents, I just never expected to be so preoccupied with the logistics of excrement. I guess I was living in some kind of Disneyland in the before times. You sort of get used to it though. Sort of.
Such a wise and thoughtful answer 😊👍
I don’t have kids, but very much want them. But for a number of reasons, it’s just not going to happen in my life and I’ve made my peace with that.
Firstly, I am a trans woman married to another trans woman. Quite happily! So obviously our only option would be adoption, however due to a chronic medical complications I’m currently using a wheelchair full time without any clear indication if that will ever change. I’m in constant pain that makes any sort of mobility difficult so very often I don’t leave the couch. So while it is possible for us to start the expensive and lengthy foster parent system, there is no guarantees I would physically be able to help my wife with child raising. And since she is also our sole income, I can’t also expect her to work full-time AND do transportation, logistics and day to day child care while I am bedridden. Especially when my wife has said that her life is complete without children.
I take solace in the fact that our hormone replacement has likely made us sterile. That’s often not the case completely, but for my own emotional well being, I assume it’s a certainty so I don’t think about surrogates.
Part of having a disability is grieving the loss of your old life and old expectations, while coming to terms with a new life along with new goals. This is a touchy subject with a lot of complex feelings, but I want to thank you OP for promoting the question and allowing me to talk.
I hope you can overcome the parts of your sickness that keep you more immobile, but otherwise it sounds like you’re in a healthy relationship and state of mind, which, with or without kids, is still key for a happy life.
Thank you for sharing.
No and no. I don’t think I’d want to subject my kids to where the world is headed. Also, too much of a long-term commitment that would significantly reduce my opportunities to do what I want, travel etc.
Those are both among the main arguments I have against having any.
As to the latter, I’m roughly satisfied in the department of things that kids would preclude.
As to the former, that’s part of the reason I want kids. I care about the people who will live in the future. I want a better life for them.
I can do what I can to improve the world in my life, but someone needs to carry the torch. Kids are an opportunity to teach some subset of the future population my values. I want to learn from my parents’ mistakes and my own life to make better kids that become better parents, who make better kids who become better parents, so on and so forth ad infinitum.
The intro to Idiocracy can be generalized: the world will be populated by the children of those who have children. If only the worst people reproduce, the future will be worse. Unless the ethical people reproduce and pass on their values, those values will die out. If we want the future to be better, we have to have kids, teach them to be better, and teach them to teach their kids to be better.
As for the travel argument, kids are so much fun to travel with! Experiencing new places through a child’s eyes!? They ask some great questions, and you get to hone in your own opinions as you decide the best way to explain life to them. Travel is the best way to raise tolerant and knowledgeable children. If you’re concerned about more… hedonistic travel just realize that you only get 18 to 20 years with them in your daily life, those designations will still be there. If you’re afraid that’s a long time then you likely haven’t had your 20th high school reunion yet.
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I would love to have kids. It seems like my biggest wish in the world. People keep telling me that having children was the most beautiful thing that happened to them. Still no baby after 9 fertility treatments, only a couple of miscarriages. I am 40 now and I have almost no time left. I feel broken by Al the treatments. Lost my work. Adoption is impossible in my country.
I would love to know how other people learn to live with this feeling.
I’ve got a few friends in similar situations.
- One couple it ended up working out for a single embryo on the second to last attempt.
- Another couple went the adoption route, ended up with two boys about the same age (one they adopted when he was a baby, the other was I think 5 or 6?). Both boys graduated college in the past few years actually! Great kids.
- A third couple opted to just not have kids. They got a dog about a year after the last attempt, which became like a stand in for a child to them. They both kept working and financially are quite well off, traveling and exploring passion projects. It took some time and therapy, wasn’t easy, but they are quite happy with where they are now.
Thank you! It is good to know what others have been doing and how they have been dealing with it. Adoption in my country is not possible, unfortunately. I am probably not allowed to be a foster mom, as I have CPTSD. They are extremely strict with that here. Although there might be a very small chance that they will accept me if I can get a letter from my psychologist that I am stable and if I do well on all the tests. I am not counting on it though.
Maybe traveling or something like that would be nice sometime in the future. It is good to hear that they are still happy. That gives a bit of hope.
7 years of trying for us. Still no luck. Doctors haven’t been able to tell us why. It’s rough some days. But one way we cope is to try to be the best aunt & uncle possible to our nieces.
Yes, that helps for me too! I have the cutest nephew who I see once a week and sometimes he sleeps over. In some cases it hurts, because it feels very empty when he leaves, but overall I am very happy to have at least him.
why adoption is impossible?
In my country adoption from other countries is impossible as there have been several cases in which children were taken away from the parents illegally. They cannot check for that informing countries, so now adoption is not allowed anymore. Adoption within my country also is almost impossible. It is believed that children are best off with the biological parents. If they cannot live there, everything is focused on creating better circumstances so they can go back. The goal for children who cannot live at home is always to go back to the biological parents, so adoption almost never happens.
There is foster care and in soms cases children are in foster care for a very long time. Although the idea is still to get them back with the biological parents once the situation is safe, in practice that might not happen. You can just never be certain about that. However, I was abused by my parents and I got CPTSD from that. While my psychologist believes I would be able to be a foster mom, maybe even better because my experiences allow me to understand these children better, it is a really big obstacle to becoming one. The foster care organisations in general believe that if you have trauma in your past that you are not well-suited to take care of a child. They already told me it is not impossible for me to be a foster mom, but not to count on it because of the CPTSD.
Is surrogacy an option? We’re a same-sex couple, so we are in a similar boat.
The problem has likely to do with the quality of my egg cells. They are not certain about this, but it is the most likely explanation. This means that surrogacy would not solve that problem. An egg cell donation might. However, in my country it is quite difficult to have access to that. There are large sperms banks, but not large banks for egg cells. So, we would need to find someone in our environment to donate an egg cell to me.
Are you a male or female couple (biologically I mean for making the child)? What happens here is that there are some women who do not have a partner, but still want a child. They often get a child together with a male gay couple and they raise the child with the three of them. I think government is even working on it to be possible for a child to have three parents legally. This is how my uncles got their twins. I am not sure whether this works the same with female couples. I see them often at the fertility treatment center, so I believe that they probably use the sperm bank.
Aww, sorry to hear that. Hopefully you can find an egg donor. We are two men, so we aren’t quite as fortunate that way. Finding another couple or woman who was interested in having children together would be very lucky. We’re hopeful, but it seems fairly unlikely. Surrogacy might be our best option.
Thank you. I really hope you do find another couple or woman who you can have children with. I have seen it work very well in practice. I think my uncles went on a website that matches people and there was some process a bit similar to dating on beforehand when they tried to find a match. However, in the end, of was a friend that was interested.
She wanted to have children, but did not have a partner. She also wanted to make sure the children had a father, so this was a good solution for her as well. Now they even have two fathers!
I hope you can find a solution like this or surrogacy. I think that everyone that is capable of taking care of a child and who wants it should be able to have one. I think it is one of the most fundamental experiences you can have in life. Good luck!
My golden rule of thumb goes by this ruling, if I can barely take care of myself and barely get by. There’s absolutely no way or chance I’ve got in caring for someone else like a child.
If I can’t stand the sight, scent, hearing and other things of other people’s children. There’s not a guarantee that I’ll see my child any different.
Mood. There was a time I was standing in line at the post office and some haggard looking mother was doing her best to calmly reign in her child who was busy running away from her, screeching and pulling over every display he could reach, and having zero regard for anyone else in the vicinity. I could see her exhaustion and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. I usually just grit my teeth and try to ignore it until I can escape, but this time I cut off the kids path when he got close, said “Stop” in the harshest tone I could muster, and ngl was pretty pleased with myself when he went crying to his mom. I did realize in that moment, tho, that I probably shouldn’t have kids.
I tried so hard to find the clip from Under the Silver Lake where he snaps and beats the asshole kid, but i couldn’t find it after ten minutes cuz the Internet is so disappointing now
I hate when the internet eats a classic clip. Hopefully this tangentially related episode of Next Time on Lonny helps?
Some mom’s out there with kids the neighborhood raises will be all: “have them anyways, you’ll make it work!”
Mid 30s here. When i was younger i never wanted kids. I would always tell my parents i never wanted any as well. Fast forward about 15-20 years, people would tell me im great with kids and i should have some. The problem with this is that i am great with kids for about 2-3 hours and then im like…get this thing away from me. People have also told me that its different when they are your own.
Well one day i booked an appointment to get a vasectomy and havent looked back yet. I also got married to someone who shares the same feelings as me towards having no kids. Life is great and havent thought of any regrets.
People have told me that I’m good with kids too. But here’s the thing…it’s actually super easy to give a child attention and follow them around for several hours. I’m not sure why people praise me for it. I guess because some people don’t care enough to give the kids the time of day or something?
But the not easy part is the taking care of them eternally thing. Parenting through meltdowns…always being there 24/7/365 with no breaks…having to always feed and clean them…etc. The list goes on.
I know it’s dark to say, but one of the things I fear I’d do is end up with one of those parents who is driven crazy and inadvertently kills their child from shaken baby syndrome.
My husband once said to me, “this is a terrible thing to say, and I don’t want you to feel bad, but you do seem like the type who might shake a baby” - I was sterilized by then so it was funny vs insulting.
Broo I feel that lol I am probably too mentally unstable for that shit. Who knows, tho.
At least when people only have one child, it almost seems maybe manageable. But people for some reason never seem to stop at one!
I have a kid. My wife wanted one but I didn’t, and I agreed because I didn’t want to lose her.
I love my kid, but to call it a huge lifestyle change is a monumental understatement. I’m happy with my life, but it could have gone the other way, and that wouldn’t have been fair to anyone. There are certainly a lot of things I miss from before, but I couldn’t go back now.
Don’t let anyone else convince you to have a kid, and don’t let anyone, including yourself, convince your spouse. This really needs to be something you want for yourself, or there is a good chance you’ll end up miserable and your child will grow up in a broken home.
If you can’t make to your mind before your age make it too risky for your comfort, then just understand that you have made a decision, and you’ll need to come to terms with that, should it come to pass.
We wanted kids, tried to have kids, but things never seemed to work out. So I went to see my doctor and they ran some tests. First test we found I had no sperm, so they did more tests, turns out I barely have any testosterone at all, but absolutely tons of estrogen. More tests, this time a genetic one. Turns out I have kleinfelter syndrome, which if caught early enough there are things that can be done. But at my age that boat has long since sailed.
It’s been an interesting couple of years. I started TRT injections at the beginning of the year. And my life has taken a complete 180, turns out you really need testosterone for alot of things. And your body reacts kinda funny without it.
Adoption seems our only choice, but she doesn’t want a kid if it’s not hers. So… Yea
That makes me wonder, how did it influence your life? Ive never heard of what a lack of testosterone can do
Waht I regret pf having kids is my financial situation and who I had kids with. I should have chosen better but I was stupid and naive back in the day…
No to all. I get to spend all my time and money with my wife. We can travel, watch concerts, and do any activity without having to worry about babysitting, getting home early, etc.
Has anyone close to you told you that you should have kids?
There’s definitely some talk on my wife’s side of the family, since her extended family has tons of kids, so they just expect anyone who gets married to have kids. We just tune it out. It also helps that we moved away so they can’t really bother much. My side doesn’t really care, or at least doesn’t care enough to ask or talk about it.
So my wife and I are child-free by choice. I’m in a rare position that I wind up speaking to many people in-depth about their lives, and the folks who have children talk about raising their kids all the time.
If I’m honest, many, many days I think “the moral of the story here is do not have kids, foks”.
That’s not to say that it’s all bad for everyone, but it is very bad for a lot of people. Essentially, their lives become exclusively about managing their children’s problems. Everyone thinks their children will be well mannered, sweet and thoughtful little guys who will fill their hearts with joy and purpose. The reality is many children are little nightmares with behavior problems that don’t seem to improve no matter how much work they put into seeing child psychologists and play therapists- every single day they spend 3-4 hours trying to calm their kid down as they fly into an uncontrollable rage, overturning tables and swinging their arms as hard as they can at the care givers and their parents. They want to help their kids learn how to control their feelings but they can’t. It’s really sad. The parents live in hell a little, every hour of the day is spent trying to manage their screaming, raging child.
I will also tell you that many people have tried to convince me over the years that we should have children. Family members, neighbors, co-workers… I also once had a neighbor (who’s kids were little terrors, I once saw one take a swing at his face because he was being punished, and they also once threw BIG rocks over the wall separating our properties without seeing where they’d land) say to me: “You just get to do whatever you want, don’t you?” when I was getting in the car to leave to go work remotely out in the countryside for a week.
My point is people don’t often tell you how hard it can be, most people lie and say that it’s great. At least half a dozen times I’ve had parents say “now I don’t wish that my child was gone or would never have been born as such, but I do often long for a life where I didn’t have to take care of them all the time”. Like they DO wish they never had kids, but they have to be careful to say they don’t want their child to disappear because its too dark of a thing to say.
Yeah, whenever people describe what it’s like to have children or whenever I happen to observe it for myself, it looks like literal hell on earth. People try to choose their words carefully to not say how miserable they are, but I can see it. You can’t even sleep anymore. Sleep deprivation is literally a torture technique.
And I mean…I get that some people have to have kids in order for the human race to continue to exist. And I’m glad my parents had me and that I got to experience life. But I just don’t know that I could do that myself. I don’t think that I could selflessly endure torture every day for years and years just to try to help another human being survive. I would like to think that I am a giving person, but not to that degree.
Eh, I’ve got five kids and they run the gamut from incredibly cool to assholes. One is pretty accomplished professionally and made sure to find ways for both her dad and me (step-dad) in her wedding. Another went no contact over the divorce/remarriage of her mom. Another has struggled with addiction and mental health, but has overcome the former at least and recently graduated and is working as a nurse. The last two are still at home and one has emotional issues and some autism and weaponized incompetence, the other is hard working and responsible and has drive balanced with emotional maturity (though hormones are kicking in so…)
In my opinion, there is too much emphasis on being perfect parents and having perfect kids leading perfect lives. We love them all and make sure they know it. We try to set healthy boundaries and allow them the same. But at the end of the day, they are people and they are going to struggle and much of that is out of our control beyond being here with advice and help in times of crisis.
And even the assholes are pretty cool in their own right. Not fun to parent, but still people who I think are great to have in your life.
I do occasionally lament the path not taken, but if I didn’t have kids this would be the path I lament. (Probably just a smaller house and nicer vacations.)
I’m not trying to convince you, but I want to put in a word as a parent of assholes who sometimes daydreams about where my life might be without kids. It was a good decision for me. And if I didn’t have them to be accountable to, my depression might well have gotten hold of me in a moment of weakness and I wouldn’t be here to write this. My kids don’t make me happy (well, sometimes) and it’s not their job to, but I’m very glad I had them.
Thats all fair. I wrote what I wrote for OP, though, and I’m truly confident my wife and I made the right choice for us. I’ve also never felt babies or toddlers were cute. Yesterday, I went shopping for dress shoes, and there was a family there with a kid who was maybe 7, and he flopped down on a bench and shouted “PHONE” and his father handed him his iphone so the kid could watch youtube videos.
We’re going to Tenerife for 10 days in a week or so, and we’re looking at a 2 berth campervan to shoot off around Ireland in as well. l also just booked 5 days going to Valencia, Spain and then up to Barcelona by train to see my favorite band, Bad Religion play a show in both of those cities. I have a full time(ish) job that I actually like and also have time to try to make money doing my creative things, which is actually growing year on year.
I am also very aware of overpopulation. The planet has twice as many people now as it did in the 70s. It cannot endure continued human expansion when everyone wants their own house and car and swimming pools.
Not to argue your decisions, but you might want to take another look at your over-population if that’s a concern.
Yes, we seem to be passing a sustainable level of population and too many people are still held in poverty partly by over-population. However the long term trend is the opposite. By all studies, population will plateau in the next few decades, then start to decrease. While that also sounds good, it looks like it is likely to drop fast. We are more likely to have instability and disruption caused by population falling too rapidly.
If replacement value for a stable population is about 2.1 children per women, most developed countries are already well below that and their populations will drop significantly as older larger generations pass. Was it Korea that hit 1.1? That means cutting their population in half over the space of one generation While I have no idea how to fix the chronic war state between the Koreas, a sudden (in one generation) loss of both population and economy is all too likely to be seen as an opportunity for the war state to turn hot.
Even in the US, we’re a bit protected but our birth rate is well below replacement value. We’re still growing in both population and economy on the strength of immigration. Most countries don’t benefit from that and current politics may impact this and cause us to start shrinking as well. While some is a good thing, a lot of shrinking too quickly can be equally bad as overpopulation. We need to figure out how to stabilize at a reasonable birth rate more like 2.0, to steadily reduce population without disruption
When you say that’s “not good” do you mean economically or environmentally? I am concerned about biodiversity die-off, deforestation, ocean acidification etc etc… I am not concerned about economics. I know the latter can effect the former, but nothing will effect it like levelling the amazonian rainforest so every person gets to eat the beef they believe they’re entitled to
That’s at least as much a lifestyle question. As more people develop higher living standards, they tend to copy those before them. Ecologically we can’t afford for all the developing countries to live like the US, even with a much smaller population
But yeah, I’m more concerned about economies. Unstable economies tend to lead to wars and oppression. The only thing worse than our current environmental exploitation is human suffering, and we need to develop a more sustainable lifestyle that avoids that.
If you look at history of environmental protection, you’ll see that generally wealthier countries can afford more of it. If we want people to be able to afford taking care of our environment, they need to have a stable economy and be relatively well off.
I mean I dont disagree with anything youre saying. Wait, I actually disagree that human suffering is worse than a global extinction event. I often play druids when I play d&d though, so there you go
I did some research on the population today. Every page I’ve looked at says it’s going to peak around the 2080’s at around 10.4 billion and then start declining.
Granted there’s a wide range, depending on too many variables. The UN official prediction is as you said but many recent studies with updated birth rates have made much earlier predictions.
Reading some of these studies, the earlier predictions seems much more plausible, and they’re connected with a steeper dropoff. While “UN Medium” is too high, I’m more afraid of “UN Low”, and how that will disrupt the world my kids and grandkids live in
That’s all fair. We still vacation, although they are sanitized “family” vacations for the most part. Plus we aren’t the kind of people who want to be tooling about foreign countries without a curated experience. Take us to your beaches, cuisine, alcohol, and cultural artifacts.
You have a lot of work flexibility for those vacations. I can work remotely, but usually I’m not allowed to take my equipment out of the country to do so. My wife has a lot less flexibility. So we are limited by time more than anything else. We live modestly and I make a good living for the cost of living here. Kids would certainly put a damper on that lifestyle, but in our case, they aren’t holding us back.
Overpopulation is a whole other thing, of course. Looks to me like we’re headed toward another global conflict or pandemic that might resolve that in part. Not saying that’s a good thing, but I think life has a way of correcting imbalance whether you do it voluntarily or not. I certainly don’t want my kids to have to live through that, but like most other things, that’s out of my control and I can only help where I can and hope for the best.
thats all fair. just to say, my wife doesnt enjoy the flexibility that I do, I just shoot off for 5 days at a time. not having kids to co-parent makes it not be a big deal
58 and without kids, no regrets so far
I’m female. Hell. Fucking no. Pregnancy and childbirth sound awful and I have zero interest in babies, children, or taking care of something that might grow to hate me. Too much societal stereotypical expectation as the mom. I understand today parenting is a lot more fair and equal but I would still be giving up my body and time for feeding, among other things.
But I’ve genuinely had to ask myself if I was a male? Would I want kids… I think one of the biggest turn offs is literally the female pregnancy/birth part. If I didn’t have to carry and give birth to a child? Maybe?
I understand adoption would still be a thing but I still think as a female I’d carry responsibility that I don’t want.
I’ve never had a desire to be around kids or babies and the screaming and crying sets me off when I’m in the vicinity. Then the teenage mood swings? I can’t fathom.
Overall I’m a hard no.
I have no idea why why any woman would want to get pregnant. It looks like an absolute terrible experience all around, and that’s not even accounting for the safety risks and the long term health reprocustions.
My wife hated being pregnant. It was the worst time in her life. But once the baby was there, hormones kicked in and all that pregnancy shit was instantly forgotten. Crazy how that works. She would never recommend pregnancy to anyone ever. She also hates how pregnancy is over-romanticized.
But she does recommend kids if you’re willing to commit a large portion of your adult life to be centered around the kid. If helps to live in a country where parents get many benefits like up to 3 years of parental leave, additional vacation days etc. We, as the parents, are having the best time of our lives. It was a difficult decision back then, and it took me until I turned 33 to finally decide to have a kid.
Some women say they enjoy it which I cannot really fathom. I did not care for it. As for why the woman would want to get pregnant though… I mean that’s about having a kid, not about being pregnant, isn’t it?
And also not to be crass, but haven’t you ever had sex that’s so good in that moment you and your body genuinely want to get pregnant?
Let me rephrase, then:
I’m surprised that any woman would want something enough that they’d be willing to endure pregnancy.
