Let me know when the “post-soviet bloc” builds a milary base on my continent like the Yankees do and then we’ll talk.

[David Attenborough voice] Here we see the Yankee attempt to protect their bubble by claiming that anything which contradicts their perceived reality is the result of some dangerous foreigner.

However, while the Yankee does their best to isolate themselves from the perceived dangers outside, they are completely unaware that this paranoia is just one of the symptoms of the parasite that has begun to lodge itself deep within their brain. Without immediate assistance the Yankee will likely develop increasingly fascist tendencies before perishing in a rather gruesome manner as the Yankee colony self destructs.

Those children grow up to be the ones writing policy. They are people too, don’t forget that you were also once a child.

The “stupidest shit” that is said is often due to them being isolated and in a social bubble where those beliefs are the norm. Those “Internet arguments” may be the only exposure to ideas outside and social pushback outside said bubble.

Lack of evidence of outcome is not evidence of outcome.

If you’re getting heated you’re doing it wrong.

The payoff isn’t to convince the other person one way or another, it’s to provide others reading the discussion alternative viewpoints. In this case pushing back against the idea that children’s thoughts, feelings and questions should be ignored.

The time period they are referencing (old history at this point…) the Ottoman empire was in control of the area and it operated as something of an apartheid state. Pogroms, persecution and oppression absolutely happened. However it was mostly a new import from western Europe. Jewish citizens were second class but they were still “people of the book” and fared much better for most of the empire’s history.

However, understanding a bit more history there is a direct through line from those historical wrongs and the modern Palestinian genocide. It is just a continuation of the Spanish, Portuguese and British (amongst others) campaign against ethnicly semetic peoples that the Jewish people also historically fell victim to.

I will note the slew of pogroms in the middle east and ask you read about why the Bar Giora was formed.

I understand that you are trying to draw a direct line from the modern IDF to a historic Jewish Resistance Movement. However, I would argue that it was coopted by foreign powers and abandoned it’s goal of an independent jewish state after it’s transformation into the Haganah and transitioned from a defensive force (largely support) to a colonizing force (don’t support).

I do not support the Ottoman empire in its persecution of religious minorities. However, I do not see how your logic and worldview wouldn’t support the Ottomans in persecuting the Jewish people at the time due to their militant tactics. What perspective am I missing?

Tell me what your point is or drop it.

The point is controlled opposition, perverse incentives, and the power/danger of “sell outs”.

I’m blanking on the exact phrase, but it’s something like “never believe a number with unreported error”.

To get further into the weeds there is a significant difference in approach between theoretical and experimental science. In experimental science it’s not only enough to communicate what you “know” but to communicate the underlying biased, tolerances and precisions of the thing being measured and modeling approach being used.

these represent the threshold of the known.

I would argue that those representations are inherently bad science because they do not communicate the margin of error. Grue, I believe you are spot on with a concept in how you would make those drawings more scientifically accurate, but ultimately they are artistic renderings of scientific understandings, but not scientific themselves.

While I don’t disagree with WoodScientist that modern scientific institutions are inherently conservative, the process of science is not, nor should it be. Apologizing for the inherent conservatism in science is unscientific, harms belief in vetted resulted, conflates institutions for processes and projects a people problem onto the inanimate.

the re-colonization of Israel by Jews goes back at least as far as the 1200s.

Immigration is not the same as colonization. When immigrating to a location (even mass migration) the power dynamics do not allow for the migrating group to dominate the local group. Colonization is when that power dynamic is flipped.

There have been war crimes on both sides, and they both need be acknowledged

Again power dynamics and scale are the most important factor here. If someone punches you that does not give you the right to murder their whole family. If someone peacefully barged their way into your home and you to leave what would your response be?

They were used by the Nazis to potentially make impossible choices that hurt their fellow community members, but they had to make these choices or else their community would have suffered even more harm

Yes, but why did Nazi Germany form them? What was their purpose in the machine?

I’m curious where you find a connection between these WWII Judenrates

I think it would be more productive for you to do a bit of reading and come back with what you think I’m getting at. I think answering that now would color the perception and make it harder to learn about a very important political concept.

I appreciate the honesty but you seem to be missing the perspective that:

1. The existence of the State of Israel is an explicit British colonization project and currently exists as a puppet state of “the empire”.

2. The power imbalance between the state of Israel and Hamas and the repeated, and well documented, war crimes and ethnic cleansing perpetrated by the State of Israel.

3. Left wing vs Right wing is a false dichotomy. You will have opinions and viewpoints of both matter your political self identification and they are poorly defined.

I would be curious to know your opinions about the judenrätes of WWII (whether they were heroes or villains, left wing vs right wing, etc.) and how the current State of Israel is not just a continuation of that?

Can’t use it to find evidence or get a warrant, but absolutely do use it to figure out who to target/where to look for evidence.

Herring Vs. United States set the de facto legal basis that allows for this sort of evidence laundering.

In every way

You seem to be replying to someone else entirely.

Depends on the patent.

Not how that works, stop talking out of your ass (Gottschalk v. Benson)

It’s not “my definition of theft”, it’s “theft”.

You keep switching between moral and legal arguments. They are not the same.

It’s like these capitalists of today saying that OSHA needs to go because they’re losing profits to it

Deflection

You strike me as

Strawman

you decided to call me an idiot

Literally mirroring your words back at you

Copyright exists to create a temporary monopoly so the creator can recoup their creation costs and some profit on top

Creation costs like the cost of an advanced degree? You’re repeating talking points like nobody’s heard them before and contradicting yourself every other comment.

How many transition steps are needed

That was a rhetorical question, let me try rephrasing that. If A+B+C=D and D+E=F is A a requirement to get F? Or is it no longer relevant because it’s 2 steps removed?

Let’s say my company gets funding to disseminate OSHA information to employees

I wish I got paid to avoid fines. I understand that is how your deeply corrupt system works but you really can’t understand the financial incentives there can you? Imagine that illegal parking is a huge problem so instead of parking tickets they pay everyone who owns a car to sit through a parking information seminar. Do you honestly think that isn’t going to factor into your decision on whether you should own/drive a car? Is it unreasonable to say that the state is paying you to drive?

So, you fully and honestly believe that Microsoft has stolen Google’s and Amazon’s code?

Does a patent protect the concept or the specific code? You seemed pretty adamant that reverse engineering was theft previously, and assuming you haven’t changed your definition of theft then yes, according to your definition of theft I’m 100% certain that’s the case.

became Fortune 500 thanks to those protections

Thanks to those, or in spite of? You are focusing on outliers and expecting that to be a convincing argument to describe the typical.

these laws ALSO serve the smaller companies.

Just because they can, doesn’t mean it’s something to expect. There are orders of magnitude between how often they protect, and how often the destroy. You a big lottery fan or something?

This is what my reply was to

Fair, I was attempting to limit scope with only discussing patents and not getting into the rest of the weeds and didn’t properly communicate that. I had assumed there would be more than a single neuron between the two of us, but that was clearly presumptive of me.

To work on interesting problems

If that’s people’s main motivator then why does copyright exist in the first place?

If we get subsidies

If you’re a large enough institution to have as many patents as you claim to then I guarantee you do. I would encourage you to dig into that as well as the why.

that doesn’t mean the patents were produced as a direct result of public funding.

How many transition steps are needed for a precursor chemical to no longer be a required precursor for a product? Is a byproduct that is sold not a product because it’s not the primary intended production output?

The student applies for a graduate program to get a degree, not get rich

And what’s the big selling point behind why you would want to get a degree?

because it’s an outlier.

Pre-pandemic public funding wasn’t, which is why I linked a source that provided both so you could see how much of an outlier it was/wasn’t.

If you go to the patent office and look at recent patents, I doubt a significant number are the result of government funding.

They all will be to some extent. The hard part is quantifying the extent for each individual patent. I can guarantee that you’re company received/has received some sort of public funding and so yes the government does have involvement directly funding them, even if it isn’t as explicit as with public health funding. Indirect funding is the much harder one to suss out but is likely significantly more.

Did Nintendo get government funding for its patents?

Directly? Probably not, but the whole point of bringing up universities was to show one of the indirect paths. However I don’t speak Japanese in order to actually research but would be very curious to know what sort of subsidies/public assistance it receives, if there exists a thing similar to MEDIA/Creative Europe, etc.

Microsoft or Apple just copy-pasting

Microsoft did copy and paste though: Yammer, Bing and Azure respectively. Apple tried with Ping/eWorld, Safari/Spotlight but didn’t really get into the web host space. Also worth mentioning the duopoly nature of those 2 specifically.

they give smaller companies SOME form of defence against the corps.

Rather telling that all your examples are Fortune 500 companies?

Do you also believe that OSHA was created to control the poor employee into submission by their great corporate overlord?

That’s a rather impressive hay golem you’ve built there.

WITHOUT ANY COPYRIGHT LAWS

We’re not talking copyright laws, we’re talking patent laws and you have yet to explain why it would be insane without changing scope or inventing fanciful scenarios.

imagine you make an innovative product. I don’t know, automatic fence painter

Do you know why there doesn’t exist automated fencepost painters? As bad as this sort of stuff is in software world it’s soooo much worse in hardware world. The licensing fees for every single little piece of IP that go into it would nickel and dime even large businesses out of building anything like that. Sure there’s also technical difficulties with building one, but those are surmountable. However, a business model that could survive the constant threats of litigation, licensing fees and turn even a mild profit does not exist.

Is this xenophobia to you?

Yes, because you just described what businesses throughout the Western world do to your mythical small business and projected it onto some mythical far east.

someone stealing your product and killing your business?

You do realize that is the point of IP right? To allow legalized theft in this exact manner? In the exact article this comment chain is discussing palworld did their due diligence to verify they weren’t violating any of Nintendo’s IP and then Nintendo modified their patent filing so that they were with the express goal of stealing their product.

the student will get hired to follow up on that research.

You’re right that that’s an aspect I forgot about, however If the patent system worked as you envision it then those students would own the parent which they would then lease to those companies. The actual situation is quite legally messy because it’s usually the universities which own the IP produced, (which is then leased out via partnerships, grants etc ) and when those individuals lease themselves with the promise of producing more valuable IP they have to take cautions to not infringe on their previous work.

I think that’s a bit extreme,

Not really, using Covid as an example this paper details the pre and post-epidemic funding sources that went into the discovery, testing and production of the COVID vaccine. Do you have any other examples you’d like to use to demonstrate how it’s “extreme”?

The COVID example, however, is an outlier

Yes and no, but it is well publicized and documented which is what I was trying to communicate with that specific one as an example.

every good, innovative US or EU product die immediately due to China/India making a 1:1 copy and flooding the markets with it?

If it’s a perfect 1:1 copy why does it matter? Can you explain how this isn’t just a stance rooted in xenophobia?

Enjoy innovative products that startups create? How about not having any of that because as soon as a startup makes something, a big corp comes in with their money, steals the idea, and floods the market?

You just described the dream of most startups. The goal of the vast majority is to be acquired by a big corp so that their idea/product can continue growing, because without acquisition growth is severely limited.