I’m talking about programs like life after hate or those exit programs in Europe.

  • pip@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    I think people (especially people in communities directly affected by nazi violence) don’t have any obligation to be involved, or to “forgive” somebody who wants to escape certain patterns of thought, but I can’t find any argument against it that fits in my moral compass. Nazism shouldn’t exist but I’m not so jaded as to think that violence is the ONLY way to combat it

  • TiredSpider@slrpnk.net
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    1 year ago

    I’d hope they work but I’ve seen too many “former” nazis get criticized for still holding some terrible views then immediately throw a tantrum and run back to the far-right because they don’t actually want to take accountability they want to get coddled by the same minorities they hurt and be told how clever and brave they are for no longer being bigots.

    • arktikos02@lemmy.worldOP
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      1 year ago

      Yes, because the ultimately didn’t get rid of the root of the problem and so they go back to their ways. Very similar to how a person who doesn’t do rehab correctly or had a bad experience with it will go back to using drugs when things get hard because that’s their coping mechanism.

      They need to have better coping mechanisms.

      The exit program in Germany for example has a 3% recidivism rate. Not too bad.

      • TootSweet@latte.isnot.coffee
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        1 year ago

        These programs you’re referring to are voluntary, right?

        So, the folks who would be against such programs on that basis think that if a(n arguably former) nazi enters the group not yet fully free of the bigotry they’ve taken concrete steps to overcome and says something, say, anti-semitic, if the program doesn’t kick them out on a zero-tolerance policy, then the program is supporting (or at least insufficiently condemning) anti-semitism?

        Edit: on rereading, I get the feeling you’re saying something more like some people think having anything to do with (even recovering) nazis is tacit complicity or something.

        • aski3252@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          You have to keep in mind, this is about protecting people’s health and lives.

          And just to be clear, Nazis aren’t people who say some anti-semitic stuff sometimes. Nazis hurt and kill people. If an organisation manages to help a neo-nazi leave their gang, but that person still holds some anti-semitic views, that’s still a win and anyone who disagrees has some weird priorities in my view…

          Would it be better if that person completely dropped those views? Of course, but I prefer a rambling racist 100 times to a neo-nazi throwing molotovs into a refugee home or attacking people in general.

          • TootSweet@latte.isnot.coffee
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            1 year ago

            Nazis aren’t people who say some anti-semitic stuff sometimes. Nazis hurt and kill people.

            Agreed. Wasn’t trying to say otherwise. But I’d think recovering nazis are frequently “people who say some anti-semitic stuff sometimes.” I’ve known people who have deconverted from both mainstream religions and cults who have needed support in the transition out, and those folks were “kindof brainwashed but working on it.” And I don’t think nazi groups are entirely dissimilar from cults.

            I don’t remember which episode specifically, but I remember Ian Danskin (“Innuendo Studios” on YouTube and creator of “The Alt-Right Playbook” series) making some points about how it’s good to have spaces meant for people who are “kindof a nazi, but working on it.” (He also said those spaces need to be kept well away from safe spaces for marginalized groups, which of course makes sense.)

            • aski3252@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              But I’d think recovering nazis are frequently “people who say some anti-semitic stuff sometimes.”

              Sure, or racist stuff. But antisemitism, racism and sexism are unfortunately not just limited to nazis, there are plenty of other people who say anti semitic, racist, homophobic and sexist stuff.

              And I don’t like it when people call all racists nazis because in my view, a Nazi is a specific and extreme version of racist. And of course all forms of racism are bad, but some are way way worse than others.

      • MrFunnyMoustache@lemmy.one
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        1 year ago

        Reeducation camps are not voluntary, these groups are voluntary ones; there is nothing wrong with helping people to leave their cults when they show interest in leaving.

          • ShunkW@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Nah. I’m not happy with Nazis existing. I’m not going to apologize for shitting on someone who literally made an argument against anti Nazism. But keep trying bud. Maybe one day the proud boys will accept you if you just keep trying.

          • ShunkW@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I don’t give good faith to literal Nazis. Like come on. Oh no, not being allowed to be a Nazi is an attack on my free speech. Fuck off with that bullshit.