Exactly what it says on the (dramatic) title.
We always hear about Biblically accurate angels: the burning wheels with tons of eyes, the strange looking creatures that sound like they come from the anime “Evangelion”, the cherubim with 4 faces, but I had a thought while watching The Exorcist: Believer (it was…not good for anyone wondering. At all. The disrespect Regan’s mom had towards Merrin and Karras after they died saving her daughter was baffling to listen to, especially…but i digress) a couple of days ago, specifically, if that’s how the demonically possessed are said to more or less act in the Judeo-Christian scriptures, or if they’re they completely different to what we see in movies and games. I’m guessing it’s more than likely the second one, right, but I’m curious about the details like the signs someone’s possessed, the demon’s endgoal, and what they look like, basically everything you can gimme to sate this curiosity or to send me on a rabbit hole, if you’d be so kind?
Off the top of my head, the Bible really says surprisingly little about demons, and various translations will say even less (depending on if the translator thinks an evil spirit=demon or not). Generally, the possessed act either mentally or physically ill, or they get scared of Jesus. Beelzebub is the prince of demons, but that’s about all we know from accepted scripture. Most “Christian” demonology stems from writings that didn’t make the final cut for the Bible, mythology borrowed from other cultures/religion, bored/crazy monks in a position to write things down, and particularly influential works that never claimed to be anything but fiction (namely Dante’s Inferno).
So our picks are either what the translator’s interpretation of a demon was or from outside sources that may or may not be entirely canonical (if at all) to the bible? Huh…i imagined the church would have wanted the faithful to know the enemy a bit more. Wonder why they were hardly mentioned (I mean zero disrespect by this by the way. I may not be Christian, but i respect the faith).
Interesting regardless, and answers why some link possession and mental illness together in media (and i assume IRL)
Due to the nature of how translation works, interpretation will always be inherent to it, especially when we can’t ask the original author for clarification. As for the church wanting the faithful to know more about demons, you could argue that is why they borrowed so much demonology from other sources. As for why it wasn’t included in the Bible itself, any answer will have to be heavily seasoned with speculation. It is important to remember, however, that the New Testament was not intended as a “how to get to heaven” or “how to avoid hell” guide. It was intended as telling the story of why you get to go to heaven in the first place (the Gospels) and letters discussing how to live faithfully. Plus Revelation.
i imagined the church would have wanted the faithful to know the enemy a bit more
By their logic sin is inherent in man. The enemy was never demons.
Sin is inherent in humans after Eden, but Satan is always depicted as a tempter trying to stray the faithful away from the good path towards their basest desires (sin), in fact some denominations believe the snake in Eden to be Satan in disguise, which would make him directly responsible for sin as a whole.
Surprisingly, a lot of the creepy media is fairly accurate, though extreme. Demons aren’t prominent, we know they are angels who rebelled with Lucifer, and were cast out, so that would be their appearance, but in reference to possession, we basically have those that Jesus encountered and a few his apostles drove out in his name later on.
And what we see are people behaving almost like animals, screaming, shouting, with an inhuman strength to break chains or whatever locals have tried to contain them with, and inflicting a lot of self harm. There’s a woman who would throw herself into fires, a man who had 100 demons in him (where “I am legion” comes from") who would throw himself onto rocks and off cliffs and cut himself, etc.
The more manufactured elements are the head twisting, anything to do with pentagrams, and honestly a lot of the hostility to others. People usually steered clear, but demon possessed individuals generally did more self harm than harming others, with cases where Jesus would meet them within cities, and they weren’t surrounded by dead people or a panicking mob or anything. They also don’t “haunt” or hunt people like they do in movies, but are usually extremely obvious.
Anyway, that’s my experience purely from biblical account, off the top of my head, I’m sure others can add more detail or examples.
I loved how detailed this answer is, thank you!
So less “intentionally terrorizing those around the possessed” and more “causing the possessed to suffer physically/mentally”? I’m sensing the pattern that Demons tend to love aping or causing mental illnesses/strange behaviors based on this and other comments. Or well, the animalistic behavior could also be the person’s reaction to having an entity taking him/her over, maybe trying to get it to leave? But…then again, that could also be that thing probably being ecstatic to have a body to move around in, who knows.
Happy to help! I like studying this stuff, and it’s fun to share it when I get the chance.
Honestly, I suspect the “demons torture humans in hell” probably originates from their seeming to want to torture the possessed.
Because in the biblical conception of hell, it’s very much not “demons torture humans” it’s more like a lake of fire to torture the demons, which unfortunate humans are also thrown into. There’s no organization or structure whatsoever. Also, nobody is currently there, humans are just… dead, or in purgatory/Gehenna, a sort of neutral waiting place, waiting to be raised back to life at the end, and sorted then.
Their role biblically seems to be just… acting against God, out of spite for being kicked out, perhaps? They seem to act to tempt humans not to find/love/follow God. Not much is given as to their motivations though, the Biblical authors truly aren’t that interested in them, besides as a warning about temptation. A shame, as they’re obviously just… fascinating to learn about, but it’s not a priority for them to write about.
They also aren’t given much credit, either. Rather than the “epic struggle of God vs Satan” we like to characterize, it’s more like… Satan and demons are permitted to roam about, but are absolutely beneath God, and can/will eventually be rounded up and thrown out very quickly. They’re characterized as accidentally playing a role in Gods plan, and given tentative leash for that reason. Satan apparently is even still allowed to visit heaven, and argues with God? See Job. Him getting locked out of heaven permanently is one of the kickoff moments of Revelation/the biblical apocalypse. Again, not much detail on this relationship, and honestly some of even this much detail is speculation.
The modern conception of “hell” is quite interesting, as it’s mostly just imaginative fiction, likely heavily inspired by pagan cultures that merged with Christianity as it spread across the world.
I kind of vaguely remember something from my Catholic upbringing that angels didn’t have free will, that was gods gift to us or something about eating the apple or something like this. That angels were emanations of god or automata under his control.
Is that a concept? It could be that I’m misremembering or that I just absorbed some ad hoc rationalization for the existence of evil, quite likely, but if it’s true that angels don’t have independence of action then how can they rebel?
And if the answer is that they actually do have freedom of action then what even are they? God made some entities on the astral plane before he made humans?
Ah yeah, there is some of that? Not totally unfounded, although my understanding is more that Angels know God is there, and always have, so they don’t have to have faith, and they don’t have the “sin nature” we do as a result of Adam and Eve eating that apple. Basically they don’t seem to have that natural selfishness we do, so their relationship with God isn’t as personal, and obedience to him comes much more easily. We are more “like God” (“made in his image”, in Genesis terms). As such, those who do follow God will “rank higher” than angels, whatever that actually looks like.
That said… it’s a bit ridiculous to assert that they don’t have any free will, because a bunch of them rebelled against God. It wouldn’t surprise me if Catholic ideology disagrees with me here though, although I don’t think there’s much of that in the actual text of the Bible.
Biblically, demons are simply fallen angels.
Be
notafraid.What makes them fallen?
They were up, now they are down.
Okay, but have they ever been only half way up?
That they fell and now they can’t get up again, maybe?
A quick search shows that “fallen angels” are angels expelled from heaven. Most often, these are angels who sided with Lucifer in his rebellion against God.
Tripping
deleted by creator
So I recently listened to an episode of the Data over Dogma podcast specifically regarding angels and demons. It’s hosted by Dan Beecher (an atheist podcaster) and Dr. Dan McClellan (a Bible scholar), and they discuss how angels and demons are actually depicted/described in the Bible, compared to the extra-biblical descriptions of both that we’ve gotten over the millennia. It’s about an hour but should serve as a nice little primer on the subject, with some recommendations for further study.
Adding that to the Watch later pile, thank you
Metatron has done a video on this ( https://youtu.be/-Mx6TtkgugU?si=7SS7s9JpMupmmpKl ). I don’t think he’s religious, but he knows his stuff when it comes to classical history. I haven’t watched this video in a while, but I think it’s more about the demons in the Bible that are close to modern pop culture demons (horns, big bat wings, etc), rather than the sorts of demons that actually possess people.
If you’re asking what Christians think demonic possession is like today, it’s far more subtle than it is in the Bible. The goal of any demon is to lead people away from God, so openly showing themselves to a secular culture that believes they’re fake is unhelpful. All of the stories I’ve heard of demonic activity have been where three demons imitate actual medical conditions like asthma, migranes, or epilepsy. The way to tell between purely medical conditions and demonic activity is with prayer and God helping you discern what it is. The only tell apart from this would be doctors doing everything they can and the problem only getting worse.
If you want to know more about demons, I recommend the Screwtape letters by C.S. Lewis.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/-Mx6TtkgugU?si=7SS7s9JpMupmmpKl
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Hmm…so the main targets of possessions would be the Faithful, whereas skeptics and those who don’t follow the Teachings of Christ would be…safe, i guess is the word? They wouldn’t be singled out, for sure.
I imagined they were subtle regardless of it being today or back in the days of Jesus since being bombastic or OTT would likely unnerve people and draw them back towards God…or, well, I know I’d go back to mass if a demon started raving to me like Pazuzu does in The Exorcist lol
Thanks for the rec, I’ll check him out later
I watched this about it recently. Enjoy
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/-Mx6TtkgugU?si=GIgFG5R0REwusvHF
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
deleted by creator
I’m still hung up on how you managed to type “Bibicially” instead of Biblically without being corrected. How is it pronounced, bib ish allee?
Like judicially, but with more bibles.
They are legion. But also week af because “yell at them” is super effective.
Hmm…IDK, Chris was yelling at those things in the movie pretty hard and all it got her was pain. Maybe if Jesus or an Exorcist was the one going “I cast you out”, then it’ll work…