Is it me or is this a uniquely American experience?
I loved in quite a few countries and I’ve never seen this kind of absurd behavior. Granted, in a man, but I’ve never seen a man cut off a woman like that just because she’s a woman, and I’ve never seen or heard comments even remotely about someone being “exotic”. I’ve heard questions like “ohh, and where are you from?” in genuine curiosity, which is fine, I’ve never noticed overt racism like that.
Edit: to clarify, I am not talking about myself. Yeah I had idiots treat me like that and you just ignore them. I’m talking about never seeing this behavior in groups. I’ve lived in Mexico (loooasds of high testosterone machismo there) and even there I’ve never seen anyone that a women so disrespectful just because she’s a woman. Same for skin color or sexual discrimination or whatever. I’m sure it’s out there but in Europe, Mexico, Canada, I haven’t seen it.
Come to think of it: I have seen some of it. A guy who thought that at in company martial arts classes he could grab women’s breasts. I kicked him out immediately, I could not fire him unfortunately as that was not my call. That guy was of course a loud mouth American.
This just makes me think more and more that this may be a problem in all countries, just that it’s a huge issue in the US.
lol no, I have had problems in the UK and Europe. The old world is extremely hierarchical and the older generations have some weird lingering quasi-religous gender issues.
you haven’t noticed racism and sexism because you are a male who’s the “proper color” for the region in which you reside.
male privilege and white privilege are often misunderstood to mean like “special privileges” and poopoo’d because plenty of white men struggle to get by in this world, but that’s not what it means.
it means the privilege of ‘being taken seriously’, the privilege of ‘benefit is the doubt’, privilege of ‘basic respect and decency’.
it also has the benefit/drawback of ‘privilege to be blind of misogyny/racism’. I believe you wholeheartedly when you say you’ve never seen it, but that’s the “privilege”.
The responsibility you hold in return for this “privilege” is you must believe the words of peeps who don’t share this “privilege” when they tell you their experiences. after all, why would you see these things? How else would you experience them when you aren’t directly a part of them?
'course you wouldn’t! That’s fine! Normal! why would you see them? those things aren’t directed at you. that’s really all the “privilege” is!
back to responsibility, be careful not to dismiss the words of people who have direct experiences of racism and sexism just because they don’t match your own. remember, these things aren’t directed at you!
I meant that I never saw other people behave like this in public, in group meetings, in the day to day lives.
I’m not dismissing anyone, don’t out words into my mouth. I was literally wondering if this issue is more prevalent in the US than in other countries because I haven’t worked in the US. Every time I read about this its the US.
In companies that I have worked or have owned I have never seen this behavior and I have never been made aware of it. My wife has never experienced.iy either. Haven’t seen this in Mexico, not in Canada either, not in Europe either. Mind you, these are personal experiences but I GOT EYES. I can see if someone behaves like an asshole and the only one single person that does come to mind in mexico, was a loud mouthed American who thought it okay to grab women’s breasts.
Stop nit with the male privilege thing. I don’t trample on your work, don’t trample on mine either
I’m trying to tell you that privilege affects us all. im saying that words like ‘i don’t see it here’ are a form of dismissal you need to be wary of using. Im not “trampling on STEM”, im explaining that preconceived notions of fairness you have can color your perspective, because you have not been forced to see otherwise. when i said “be careful not to dismiss”, i meant that your words were toeing the line towards dismissal. i can see upon reread that it could be taken worse than i intended, so i’ll be even clearer in saying “you must be careful not to”, not “you’re being dismissive right now”.
my whole point is: privilege is a double-edged sword and despite trying, your position in society means you cannot see these things as well as those who are forced to see.
Do you fundamentally disagree with this concept? Do you believe that what I’m saying is possible? I’m not coming at you from a high horse, im saying these things as someone who has reevaluated my own privilege and wants to share what I’ve learned.
I live in America and haven’t noticed this as a man, I assume the misogynists have enough self awareness to keep it somewhat out of sight. The last time I noticed something inappropriate, the person quietly left the company a few weeks later. I have no idea if it was related to what I saw, but I wouldn’t be surprised.
I 100% believe that it happens, it’s just not visible to me.
Usually its not explicit, but patterns happen can be seen. Sometimes its not obvious unless you are specifically looking for it or the one directly receiving the treatment.
Trans experiences are just one case where those patterns become a lot more obvious. I remember someone telling a story about how often transitioning, someone’s father and brother started giving football explanations to her as if she were new to the sport when she’d been just as involved for her entire life. Its not like they were intentionally trying to be malicious, but they clearly subconsciously decided “woman needs to be taught how ball game works” even when its someone who they previous thought of as a man and didn’t treat like that.
Of course cis women point out that same kind of treatment. And often people just think they’re imagining things.
Is it me or is this a uniquely American experience?
I loved in quite a few countries and I’ve never seen this kind of absurd behavior. Granted, in a man, but I’ve never seen a man cut off a woman like that just because she’s a woman, and I’ve never seen or heard comments even remotely about someone being “exotic”. I’ve heard questions like “ohh, and where are you from?” in genuine curiosity, which is fine, I’ve never noticed overt racism like that.
Edit: to clarify, I am not talking about myself. Yeah I had idiots treat me like that and you just ignore them. I’m talking about never seeing this behavior in groups. I’ve lived in Mexico (loooasds of high testosterone machismo there) and even there I’ve never seen anyone that a women so disrespectful just because she’s a woman. Same for skin color or sexual discrimination or whatever. I’m sure it’s out there but in Europe, Mexico, Canada, I haven’t seen it.
Come to think of it: I have seen some of it. A guy who thought that at in company martial arts classes he could grab women’s breasts. I kicked him out immediately, I could not fire him unfortunately as that was not my call. That guy was of course a loud mouth American.
This just makes me think more and more that this may be a problem in all countries, just that it’s a huge issue in the US.
Sorry, but this sounds exactly like what male privilege is. Assuming that it doesn’t happen near you because you haven’t noticed it.
Ask your female friends what sorts of sexism they genuinely face regularly and I think you’ll learn a lot.
That is what I meant. I’ve never seen this behavior in meetings where someone just dismisses a woman/person of color/lgbt/etc just because.
I think this sort of behavior is especially prevalent in the US because even in Mexico guys didn’t behave like that.
This is why I learned to stfu about experiences I don’t understand.
I say that as a person of color trying to explain my perspective and be given deer-in-headlights responses, or worse, dismissal and denial.
lol no, I have had problems in the UK and Europe. The old world is extremely hierarchical and the older generations have some weird lingering quasi-religous gender issues.
you haven’t noticed racism and sexism because you are a male who’s the “proper color” for the region in which you reside.
male privilege and white privilege are often misunderstood to mean like “special privileges” and poopoo’d because plenty of white men struggle to get by in this world, but that’s not what it means.
it means the privilege of ‘being taken seriously’, the privilege of ‘benefit is the doubt’, privilege of ‘basic respect and decency’.
it also has the benefit/drawback of ‘privilege to be blind of misogyny/racism’. I believe you wholeheartedly when you say you’ve never seen it, but that’s the “privilege”.
The responsibility you hold in return for this “privilege” is you must believe the words of peeps who don’t share this “privilege” when they tell you their experiences. after all, why would you see these things? How else would you experience them when you aren’t directly a part of them?
'course you wouldn’t! That’s fine! Normal! why would you see them? those things aren’t directed at you. that’s really all the “privilege” is!
back to responsibility, be careful not to dismiss the words of people who have direct experiences of racism and sexism just because they don’t match your own. remember, these things aren’t directed at you!
have a good one
Dear God.
No, not what i meant.
I meant that I never saw other people behave like this in public, in group meetings, in the day to day lives.
I’m not dismissing anyone, don’t out words into my mouth. I was literally wondering if this issue is more prevalent in the US than in other countries because I haven’t worked in the US. Every time I read about this its the US.
In companies that I have worked or have owned I have never seen this behavior and I have never been made aware of it. My wife has never experienced.iy either. Haven’t seen this in Mexico, not in Canada either, not in Europe either. Mind you, these are personal experiences but I GOT EYES. I can see if someone behaves like an asshole and the only one single person that does come to mind in mexico, was a loud mouthed American who thought it okay to grab women’s breasts.
Stop nit with the male privilege thing. I don’t trample on your work, don’t trample on mine either
I’m trying to tell you that privilege affects us all. im saying that words like ‘i don’t see it here’ are a form of dismissal you need to be wary of using. Im not “trampling on STEM”, im explaining that preconceived notions of fairness you have can color your perspective, because you have not been forced to see otherwise. when i said “be careful not to dismiss”, i meant that your words were toeing the line towards dismissal. i can see upon reread that it could be taken worse than i intended, so i’ll be even clearer in saying “you must be careful not to”, not “you’re being dismissive right now”.
my whole point is: privilege is a double-edged sword and despite trying, your position in society means you cannot see these things as well as those who are forced to see.
Do you fundamentally disagree with this concept? Do you believe that what I’m saying is possible? I’m not coming at you from a high horse, im saying these things as someone who has reevaluated my own privilege and wants to share what I’ve learned.
Lol not from what I’ve heard about Italy
I lived in Mexico, arguably worse macho-wise, and even there men didn’t behave that shittily
I live in America and haven’t noticed this as a man, I assume the misogynists have enough self awareness to keep it somewhat out of sight. The last time I noticed something inappropriate, the person quietly left the company a few weeks later. I have no idea if it was related to what I saw, but I wouldn’t be surprised.
I 100% believe that it happens, it’s just not visible to me.
Usually its not explicit, but patterns happen can be seen. Sometimes its not obvious unless you are specifically looking for it or the one directly receiving the treatment.
Trans experiences are just one case where those patterns become a lot more obvious. I remember someone telling a story about how often transitioning, someone’s father and brother started giving football explanations to her as if she were new to the sport when she’d been just as involved for her entire life. Its not like they were intentionally trying to be malicious, but they clearly subconsciously decided “woman needs to be taught how ball game works” even when its someone who they previous thought of as a man and didn’t treat like that.
Of course cis women point out that same kind of treatment. And often people just think they’re imagining things.